Why do people hurl the term "Jansenist" at some Traditional Catholics?
#11
Larry is right.  Patches of Trads like that do exist.
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#12
I have seen a few (not many or most) trads on this forum say they hardly ever receive Holy Communion, as they don't feel comfortable receiving or that they are not worthy. After a while, desire for the Eucharist goes cold or nonexistent due to scruples. . I definitely see that as a form of Jansenism rearing its head.
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#13
Maybe they are committing habitual sins and don't want to admit it on an internet forum.

Not going to Communion does not necessarily make you a Jansenist or over-scrupulous.
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#14
(03-15-2013, 03:54 PM)ggreg Wrote: Maybe they are committing habitual sins and don't want to admit it on an internet forum.

Not going to Communion does not necessarily make you a Jansenist or over-scrupulous.

There have been people on these forums that have criticized Saint Pius X's encouragement of receiving daily communion (for those in the state of grace).  That is certainly Jansenism. 
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#15
(03-15-2013, 03:56 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(03-15-2013, 03:54 PM)ggreg Wrote: Maybe they are committing habitual sins and don't want to admit it on an internet forum.

Not going to Communion does not necessarily make you a Jansenist or over-scrupulous.

There have been people on these forums that have criticized Saint Pius X's encouragement of receiving daily communion (for those in the state of grace).  That is certainly Jansenism. 

I don't know about that. Having read several books on the history of Jansenism (a particularly good one is "God owes us nothing") I associate it with a very particular theological heresy that was adopted by clerics in France largely because of their pre-existing animosity towards Rome. It is often conflated with the rigorism and Neo-Gallicanism that were present at the same time, but it is certainly not the same thing.

To differ in opinion with a Pope does not make one a Jansenist. While I agree with St. Pius X theology of frequent communion, it was certainly an innovation at the time. To suggest that any critique of it is Jansenist is like saying every Pope who came before him for nine centuries was Jansenist.

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#16
(03-15-2013, 03:30 PM)Larry Wrote: I've seen the term "Jansenist" used against trad Catholics who will never dance, who don't drink(yes, they exist), and are generally rigorists about every aspect of life. It rarely has anything to do with the heresy of Jansenism per se.

Wow, not drinking is seen as "Jansenist"?
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#17
(03-15-2013, 03:56 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(03-15-2013, 03:54 PM)ggreg Wrote: Maybe they are committing habitual sins and don't want to admit it on an internet forum.

Not going to Communion does not necessarily make you a Jansenist or over-scrupulous.

There have been people on these forums that have criticized Saint Pius X's encouragement of receiving daily communion (for those in the state of grace).  That is certainly Jansenism. 

Agreed and very silly.  Though I wonder how many Trads have the ultra luxury of daily mass?
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#18
(03-15-2013, 04:11 PM)DoktorDespot Wrote:
(03-15-2013, 03:56 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(03-15-2013, 03:54 PM)ggreg Wrote: Maybe they are committing habitual sins and don't want to admit it on an internet forum.

Not going to Communion does not necessarily make you a Jansenist or over-scrupulous.

There have been people on these forums that have criticized Saint Pius X's encouragement of receiving daily communion (for those in the state of grace).  That is certainly Jansenism. 

I don't know about that. Having read several books on the history of Jansenism (a particularly good one is "God owes us nothing") I associate it with a very particular theological heresy that was adopted by clerics in France largely because of their pre-existing animosity towards Rome. It is often conflated with the rigorism and Neo-Gallicanism that were present at the same time, but it is certainly not the same thing.

To differ in opinion with a Pope does not make one a Jansenist. While I agree with St. Pius X theology of frequent communion, it was certainly an innovation at the time. To suggest that any critique of it is Jansenist is like saying every Pope who came before him for nine centuries was Jansenist.

No pope had ever condemned daily communion, it just wasn't prevalent before Saint Pius X. To say that a sainted pontiff somehow diminished the importance of the sacrament is very problematic.  I mean if Saint Pius X is a modernist too...well shoot. 

The whole Jansenist approach to communion was that it was a reward for the elect, not something that provided needed grace for sinners. In fact, that attitude is something you find with many trads: our faith is a reward for the elect rather than here to save us sinners.
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#19
(03-15-2013, 02:35 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: Well, Jansenism proceeds chiefly from a distorted view of predestination, but when you see the term 'hurled' at trads, they're more referring to the symptoms of it.  I have composed a thread (really, it's just a quick copy and paste job from Denzinger) detailing the condemned errors of the Jansenists.  I think most of the time when the term is used, it is inaccurately applied, though it can certainly be applicable.  Usually when one insists that their personal rigorism must be followed by others. 

Here is a link to that thread: http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index...pic=1488.0

:)
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#20
I don't really have anything against frequent communion, but I don't know if the fact that a particular pope has been canonized means that all of his actions are suddenly above reproach. Certainly, I think reasonable people can question at least a couple of actions taken by St. Pius X during his papacy.
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