Poll: How do you feel about the new pope, Pope Francis?
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Poll. Pope Francis: Impressed? Unimpressed?
#21
You seem to have changed your tune a bit Jovan  :Hmm:

From this:
(03-13-2013, 09:57 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: Thank you, Grasshopper. I had thought a few hours break would be enough, but given the doom'n'gloom, pessimism, thinly veiled sede vacantism, and general 'Oh, my God, he's not going to ban the NO tonight' attitude around here, I might have to take a few days off.

(03-13-2013, 05:09 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: My feelings exactly. In fact, I'm going to take abreak and go to the pub for a while and have a drink to toast our new Holy Father with. The pessimism, badmouthing, and general pissiness of some posters is getting to me on what should be a joyous day! Habemus Papam! Deo gratias!

To this:
(03-16-2013, 12:26 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: What bothers me about Pope Francis is his extreme pride. Pride in how humble he is. 'Look at me! I'm so humble I won't wear the appropriate garb when I come out onto the balcony. Look at me! I ride the bus with the Cardinals. Look at me! I take an ordinary car to pay my hotel bill in person.' Now his false humility goes beyond himself. 'Look at me! I'm so humble I won't let the Cardinals wear their appropriate garb when I meet with them.'

C.S. Lewis dealt with this sort of false humility in the Screwtape Letters for those who have read them. I am extremely worried that his pride may undo much of the good that Papa Emeritus did. At the very least his false humility is denigrating the Petrine Office. As somebody pointed out in another thread, the garb, ceremonial, etc. are not to meant glorify the man holding the Office, they are to give appropriate dignity to that Office. He is continuing the denigration of the Petrine Office begun by his immediate predecessors in refusing Coronation, suppressing the Roman Nobility and their part in Papal ceremony, etc.

May God have mercy on his Church!
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#22
(03-16-2013, 01:33 AM)TerraMariana Wrote: You seem to have changed your tune a bit Jovan 

His objections in those posts was that the pessimism was premature and out of place for the day. But now he's seen more of Pope Francis.
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#23
(03-16-2013, 01:43 AM)m.PR Wrote:
(03-16-2013, 01:33 AM)TerraMariana Wrote: You seem to have changed your tune a bit Jovan 

His objections in those posts was that the pessimism was premature and out of place for the day. But now he's seen more of Pope Francis.

Exactly! I've seen enough false humility in the last 36 hours to last me a lifetime.

(03-16-2013, 12:34 AM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: Are there any reports of him as a prideful man? 

I don't need reports to make a decision based on what I've seen and read. A truly humble man, if offered the Red Hat, would either refuse it, or, if accepted out of obedience would then say, 'I wish the Holy Father hadn't done this to me, but now I will wear the appropriate garb, etc. to dignify the office to which I have been raised, even tho' it goes against my inclinations'. Likewise, on being elevated to the Papacy. It has been refused in the past, and if accepted, humility would dictate that, despite his personal feelings, he should maintain the dignity of the Petrine Office. What I'm seeing here is a man so proud of his 'humility' that he will denigrate the Office he holds to appear 'humble'.

However, in the long run, it makes no never mind. He is still my Holy Father and I will pray for him and the Church he has been chosen to lead.
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#24
One of the first things he did as pope was drive over to the hotel he was staying at and pay his bill. I like him.
:) :) :)
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#25
(03-16-2013, 02:35 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(03-16-2013, 01:43 AM)m.PR Wrote:
(03-16-2013, 01:33 AM)TerraMariana Wrote: You seem to have changed your tune a bit Jovan 

His objections in those posts was that the pessimism was premature and out of place for the day. But now he's seen more of Pope Francis.

Exactly! I've seen enough false humility in the last 36 hours to last me a lifetime.

(03-16-2013, 12:34 AM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: Are there any reports of him as a prideful man? 

I don't need reports to make a decision based on what I've seen and read. A truly humble man, if offered the Red Hat, would either refuse it, or, if accepted out of obedience would then say, 'I wish the Holy Father hadn't done this to me, but now I will wear the appropriate garb, etc. to dignify the office to which I have been raised, even tho' it goes against my inclinations'. Likewise, on being elevated to the Papacy. It has been refused in the past, and if accepted, humility would dictate that, despite his personal feelings, he should maintain the dignity of the Petrine Office. What I'm seeing here is a man so proud of his 'humility' that he will denigrate the Office he holds to appear 'humble'.

However, in the long run, it makes no never mind. He is still my Holy Father and I will pray for him and the Church he has been chosen to lead.

To tell you the truth my thoughts are fairly similar to yours. I have heard good and bad things and it will probably take a while longer to form a definite opinion about the Holy Father. Yes, I accept that it is God's will that he is to lead the Church and I will pray for him.

You mentioned previously that on another thread somebody pointed out that all the outer trappings of being a Pope are not to meant glorify the man holding the Office, but are to give appropriate dignity to that Office. Do you (or anybody else) remember on which thread that was? I thought that person put it very well but when I tried to find the post later I wasn't able to. 




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#26
(03-16-2013, 02:44 AM)Poche Wrote: One of the first things he did as pope was drive over to the hotel he was staying at and pay his bill. I like him.
:) :) :)

Yeah see this is one big waste of papal time.  It's not just his time anymore, and it's far more valuable than when he was a young Jesuit.
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#27
I was sort of leery at first, but the more hyperbole against him I heard, the more I like him. I'm contrary like that.
If he was as bad as all that, you shouldn't need to overstate the case against him.
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#28
I voted  "don't like him, he'll be bad for us."

Now don't get me wrong, I respect our Holy Father and will obey him (even if he were to ban the TLM); but respect and obedience does not necessitate  liking a superior or believing he will do well.

To be blatantly honest, I think we're getting into a pontificate that will be much worse than Pope Paul VI's. Right now the best thing for us to do is pray for him and prepare ourselves both spiritual and mentally for what's to come.

The fact that so many people are either fawning over him or expressing sheer discouragement  is another indicator of a great loss of faith, even among us who profess to be loyal Catholics, coming in the near future.

Pray.

For those into prophecies, here's one to keep in mind

"To test this faith and confidence of the just, there will be occasions when everything will seem to be lost and paralyzed. This, then, will be the happy beginning of the complete restoration." [Our Lady of Good Success]

Oh, and it was reported just today that the Holy Father refrained from blessing the crowd at the general audience because he didn't want to offend the non-Catholics there.

Pray.
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#29
This blogger here worded my feelings quite accurately:
The reckless (re-) abandonment of the regal and distinguishing appurtenances of the papal office, whatever the motivation, is not a true or practical humility. It debases the Petrine ministry and office and compromises the mission of the Ecclesia Catholica in the world. Nevertheless and always, oremus pro pontifice nostro Francisco.
http://www.eccentricbliss.com/2013/03/pr...ly-father/
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#30
(03-16-2013, 08:24 AM)TerraMariana Wrote: You mentioned previously that on another thread somebody pointed out that all the outer trappings of being a Pope are not to meant glorify the man holding the Office, but are to give appropriate dignity to that Office. Do you (or anybody else) remember on which thread that was? I thought that person put it very well but when I tried to find the post later I wasn't able to. 

Could this be what you're looking for?
rbjmartin Wrote:What bothers me about prelates who forsake the dignities of their office is that they mistake those dignities as their own to give up. They are not. They belong to the office and to the Church. A priest has no right to tell his parishioners to "just call me Joe." No, it is the right of the faithful to call him "Father." It is not the right of a bishop to discourage the faithful from calling him "Excellency." Again, it is our right to honor the office (not the man). I will kiss any bishop's ring, no matter how notorious a bastard he may be, because I honor his office.

It is not humility to surrender dignities that don't belong to you. Nemo dat quod non habet.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...sg33878699
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