Pope Francis in 2005: Defend the right to life even if they ‘have you killed’
#11
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#12
(03-16-2013, 10:44 PM)ggreg Wrote: If he is rigid on moral teaching, what good would it do if he concurrently said, or gave the impression by his actions, that the First Commandment did not matter or that the Catholic Church was not the sole beacon of truth and was really just one path of many to God?

He quoted Léon Bloy in his first homily saying, "Anyone who does not pray to the Lord prays to the devil."  I hope he takes that quote to its logical conclusion.  It really doesn't leave much room for false ecumenism.
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#13
(03-16-2013, 11:04 PM)DrBombay Wrote: [IMG width=100]http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/incedo/36281787_zps30884ae5.jpg[/img]

Tard would never be so animated as to use exclamation points.
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#14
We need not get too worked up about statements in defense of life or against homosexuality. These are, after all, matters of natural law. A Muslim or a good pagan will also get these matters right, as well.

What we need to be most mindful of in our Church leaders is how they address matters of supernatural law. It should be a given that they defend the natural law (although, sadly, that is not always the case). But are they defending the singular rights of God? Do they exhort all mankind to love and worship Him as is His due and as He has mandated through His Church?
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#15
(03-16-2013, 11:26 PM)Pheo Wrote:
(03-16-2013, 10:44 PM)ggreg Wrote: If he is rigid on moral teaching, what good would it do if he concurrently said, or gave the impression by his actions, that the First Commandment did not matter or that the Catholic Church was not the sole beacon of truth and was really just one path of many to God?

He quoted Léon Bloy in his first homily saying, "Anyone who does not pray to the Lord prays to the devil."  I hope he takes that quote to its logical conclusion.  It really doesn't leave much room for false ecumenism.

Unfortunately I am not so sure about this one. Isn't most "false ecumenism" between the Church and various protestant sects? They certainly pray to Christ (at least their conception of him). Honestly i aspect a fair deal of this Pope implying Protestantism is okay. Especially considering the statements on Anglicanism he has allegedly made in the past. Also I would not be surprised if we hear that old "God wouldn't revoke the Old covenant" canard again.

The ecumenical movement has always been more about pan-Christianity than it has about Catholic-Hindu relations.

Also, the Pope expressed great disagreement with Benedict's words that Muhammad was "evil and inhumane" so we will have to see on that front too.

Obviously I pray and hope that the grace of the office has made him much firmer on this front. But I would not be at all surprised by another Assisi.
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#16
(03-17-2013, 12:09 AM)rbjmartin Wrote: We need not get too worked up about statements in defense of life or against homosexuality. These are, after all, matters of natural law. A Muslim or a good pagan will also get these matters right, as well.

What we need to be most mindful of in our Church leaders is how they address matters of supernatural law. It should be a given that they defend the natural law (although, sadly, that is not always the case). But are they defending the singular rights of God? Do they exhort all mankind to love and worship Him as is His due and as He has mandated through His Church?

Good man for saying this.
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#17
(03-16-2013, 08:53 PM)John Lane Wrote:
(03-16-2013, 08:41 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: The pope has also compared abortion in cases of rape to the “death penalty” ...
Sadly, Vox, his strong words on the evil of abortion are based, as were JP2's, on the heresy of an absolute right to life, which condemns the death penalty as well as abortion.  The whole "Culture of Life vs Culture of Death" thing is a novelty, and strongly suggests the evolutionary foundation which supports all of Modernism.

I do not agree.  And I have not heard of any such "heresy" as an "absolute" right to life.  The Church allows for the death penalty with the state having the authority in certain cases but we would rather give the soul a chance.  As for being willing to be killed for standing up for the unborn--yes, as one on the front lines in the pro-life movement with the 40 Days for Life and all year round, I remain in a state of grace because in a sense my own life could be on the line. There is indeed a culture of death and it is huge and growing.  We little ones are powerless against it because it is demonic so we must use our spiritual weapons and beg God to intervene. This we do.  If you are praying at abortion mills on a regular basis then you will know about this.  It is NOT modernism! And I am not a modernist but I do what I can to defend life and the innocent unborn who are indeed given a 'death penalty' with a painful violent death as they are torn literally limb from limb from their mother's wombs. And then the body parts are sold off.

I welcome strong words on the evil of abortion for that atrocity is sending countless souls to hell.  It not only takes the lives of the unborn children but is devastating many times to the mothers or fathers and others as well in ways physical, emotional, and spiritual.  I have heard untold numbers of stories, even from men and even this week, about the after effects of abortion.

I do not appreciate a fellow Catholic even hinting that standing up for life is somehow modernist or heretical.  If Catholics would emerge from behind closed doors and their armchairs and truly live their faith everywhere without shame or cowardice, we would be in a different world that is not succumbing to the culture of death.  Yes, that is a good term.
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#18
(03-17-2013, 07:26 AM)Magdalene Wrote:
(03-16-2013, 08:53 PM)John Lane Wrote: Sadly, Vox, his strong words on the evil of abortion are based, as were JP2's, on the heresy of an absolute right to life, which condemns the death penalty as well as abortion.  The whole "Culture of Life vs Culture of Death" thing is a novelty, and strongly suggests the evolutionary foundation which supports all of Modernism.

I do not agree.  And I have not heard of any such "heresy" as an "absolute" right to life.  The Church allows for the death penalty with the state having the authority in certain cases but we would rather give the soul a chance. 

Well, by total coincidence, my priest (SSPX) today from the pulpit said that we are not obliged to hold that the State must employ the death penalty, but as Catholics we absolutely must hold that the State has the right to employ the death penalty.

The denial of this truth is the heresy I mentioned yesterday.

All liberals deny this right to the Sate, for the simple reason that all liberals don't give a fig what the Church teaches, they have their own ideas.  Pride.
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