Throwing trad catholics under the bus
#21
(03-17-2013, 01:23 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:
(03-17-2013, 12:42 AM)Poche Wrote: I think you should give Pope Francis a chance. He hasn't even got started and already people are complaining.
(snip the youtube video of the hideous Mass

People can change, and they often do when they become Pope. Let's see if he does. We can see the video, and could watch 100 like them (or watch the same one over and over aga in), and someone could post them in every thread (and risk a ban) -- we get it. He is not a trad when it comes to the liturgy. Looks like it will likely be JPII all over again. OK. But as long as he isn't messing around with Catholic doctrine, it shouldn't affect the lives of trads that much at all. We've been down this road before. We know the tune. And we need to be doing what WE need to be doing, whether the Holy Father is doing what we (rightfully, IMO, obviously) think he needs to be doing or not.

I really don't look forward to another 5, 10, 20 years of seeing old liturgy videos posted when a small handful are enough to make the point that the Holy Father, at least when he was Cardinal, was a bad liturgist. Maybe the papacy will change him in that regard. Or maybe it won't. Time will tell. But as for now, we've seen the videos. We get it. It sucks. Too bad for us. Too bad for the Church. Wah, wah, wah. We can cry about it, we can bitch endlessly about it, we can get all peevish and sarcastic about it -- or we can DO THE WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE OURSELVES.

Think of the Saints who took upon themselves the task of "gettin' 'er done" instead of moaning about others not doing what they're supposed to be doing. "Go, Francis, and repair my house, which as you see is falling into ruin." The Saints didn't sit around and bitch; they ACTED. They formed religious orders, they educated the young, they fed the hungry, they went to Mass, they went to Confession, they read spiritual works, they wrote spiritual works... Yeah, some, like St. Catherine of Siena, wrote to Popes, too, but she did more than speak her mind; she worked.

And, IMO, what we need to do, in addition to the Works of Mercy, teaching our kids, and feeding our own souls, is to get the TLM restored. If (and that is an if) the Holy Father's past will forecast his future when it comes to things liturgical, we've got to do the work OURSELVES. His predecessor gave us the mechanism to get it done. So many of us trads accuse the "NOers" of having a lopsided, inflated view of the papacy -- but here we are, waiting for Mr. Magic Man to wave a wand instead of imitating the Saints ourselves.

So what are we made of? Moldy cheez and whine? Or "the right stuff"?
 
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#22
Warrenton a long time ago on this forum said "Loyalty is Love in action" I think about that statement frequently, I would follow a shoe less Pope before I support any Anti Pope no matter how much he likes the 1962 missal.


Well I dont mind either, but if such a vicar so chooses i would hope that it he would be a discaliced franciscan, a religious from a traditional order or while on pilgramige to say, an approved Marian apperition site.

after all the old priests of our jewish bretheran before Jesus the priests were barefoot as the space was considered sacred.
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#23
(03-16-2013, 11:57 PM)rbjmartin Wrote: Those of you who are newer to tradition or the Faith don't know what it was like before Benedict. We truly felt besieged. It was not a pleasant experience, and I only came to tradition a few years prior to Benedict's election (and even under Benedict things weren't perfect).

Gird your loins, my brethren. We are about to be tested, I fear.

Yes, it seems so. Have a look at the following evidence.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/marielena/130316

FRANCIS (Jorge Mario Bergoglio) an Argentinian Jesuit from "the end of the world"-- may end up taking you there...
By Marielena Montesino de Stuart - March 16, 2013

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#24
(03-16-2013, 11:39 PM)MorganHiver Wrote: Well, IF (a big IF) the new pope turns out to be a radical, shoe-less hippie that favours pro-life modernists and truly is a danger to the faith, how does one go about electing and installing an anti-pope? This practice was pretty common during the middle ages and both popes were legit. So, how about it?

Again, this is a BIG IF.

No. It would be gravely sinful.
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#25
(03-17-2013, 02:04 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(03-17-2013, 01:23 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:
(03-17-2013, 12:42 AM)Poche Wrote: I think you should give Pope Francis a chance. He hasn't even got started and already people are complaining.
(snip the youtube video of the hideous Mass

People can change, and they often do when they become Pope. Let's see if he does. We can see the video, and could watch 100 like them (or watch the same one over and over aga in), and someone could post them in every thread (and risk a ban) -- we get it. He is not a trad when it comes to the liturgy...

Meh.  You know me by now, Vox.  I just like to bring sources to the table.  The election is pretty fresh news, and I figure at this time, information about his past and a perception of how he's done things is important to know. 

But if, after only 5 days, everyone is already tired of hearing about Bergoglio's past...well, whatever I guess. 

I understand your messages about how important at the ground level laity should be working hard to promulgate Traditional Masses. 

So, you think all critical discussions of the pope should end, then?  I don't hate the guy.  I'm just publicly putting him under a microscope.         

Thoughts?                                   


UPDATE:

Nevermind.  I see from several posts that you're tired of hearing talk about the new pope.  Have a nice weekend, y'all.  I'm out.           


                   
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#26
(03-17-2013, 11:59 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote: Meh.  You know me by now, Vox.  I just like to bring sources to the table.  The election is pretty fresh news, and I figure at this time, information about his past and a perception of how he's done things is important to know. 

But if, after only 5 days, everyone is already tired of hearing about Bergoglio's past...well, whatever I guess. 

I understand your messages about how important at the ground level laity should be working hard to promulgate Traditional Masses. 

So, you think all critical discussions of the pope should end, then?  I don't hate the guy.  I'm just publicly putting him under a microscope.         

Thoughts?                                                                   

No, I don't think that. But I think that any criticism should be fair, that he should be given the benefit of the doubt when possible, that he should be treated with respect, that people shouldn't nit-pick, that people shouldn't act all happy if they pick for nits and find something, and that people shouldn't not trust that Christ will protect His Church 'til the end. Other than that, s'all good. We want news about Pope Francis, I think. (though, on the other hand, it'd be nice to get news about other things, too)

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#27
(03-17-2013, 12:03 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote: With the armour of justice * and in the power of God, let us prove ourselves in much patience. Ant for Nona during Lent

And let us encourage each other.

Today, Passion Sunday, was my first contact with any Catholics after Pope Francis was elected.  I admit I was trembling.  The priest who celebrated Mass gave a homily on the Agony in the Garden.  He said it was remarkable that Jesus, being God, prayed (as Man) to His Father.  He talked about the humility of the God-Man praying.

The remarkable thing for me was not his words, because I've heard this before.  What was remarkable was his joy.  He didn't say a word about the new pope.  An SSPX priest being joyful just a few days after Pope Francis was elected.  He looked as if it was Easter.  He was so joyful, he looked like a bridegroom on his wedding day.  What I got from him was that he's ready for whatever comes, and maybe he's even welcoming a fight.  He obviously fights himself quite successfully.  What faithful Catholic has nothing to say about a new pope?!  (I heard once he was one of ABL's bodyguards, but I don't know if that's true.  He certainly looks like he could've been.)  He made me feel so safe!

I went to Mass trembling a bit and during his homily I found once more something that the Catholic Church has that exists nowhere else in the world: real joy. 

We are made to want joy.  Some of us find ways of fooling ourselves into thinking 'But joy is for little kids who don't know better, or for people who have never suffered.  Or for fools.  Or for when I prove myself to be better than someone else in some way.'  But that's wrong.  If this SSPX priest could be joyful on Passion Sunday, giving a homily on the Agony in the Garden, after having had Pope Francis elected just a few days ago, I have to wonder at my own occasional stubborn insistence that joy is for the next world, and not this one, or for children in good families, or for people with blinders, burying their heads in sand, or immature jackasses, not me. 

I've had this thought before and it struck me again today: if a Sorrowful Mystery can be meditated on joyfully, what on earth can shake me?  But even more, I believe the rosary, and all the sacraments and sacramentals are gifts from Heaven that give grace, and even more.  They give what I've wanted all my life: permission to be joyful.  All my life I've looked for some way of allowing myself to be joyful.  Only the Church offers this permission to be really joyful even while we have our eyes and ears open. 

The rosary is a chance to stop dwelling on negative things, and be led to keep Our Lady company through the joys and sorrows of her life in the world, and beyond.  What an immense blessing to have that break.  :)
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