Papolatry in the Trad World
#31
(03-17-2013, 08:54 AM)JustaServant Wrote:
(03-17-2013, 08:50 AM)JayneK Wrote: You are not dealing with anything substantive.  Instead you are posting personal attacks and insults.  If you are capable of engaging in rational discussion of ideas, I encourage you to do so.

Discussion of what?
Your beloved owner starts the thread off by using filthy language, and then her disciples use up bandwith trying to rationalize sin.
I thought you said you were a religious yourself.
Maybe you should take your husband's advice.

I suggest you ask a Catholic priest whether saying WTF is a sin.  Or ask Br. JR.  I am sure that he knows it is not a sin and will be able to explain this to you.

I am not a religious and have never claimed to be one.  I am a secular Franciscan.  At times, I describe myself simply as a Franciscan, as is common in the Franciscan orders.  

My husband came to see that he should not generalize from the behaviour of a few to condemn the entire forum.
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#32
Well Tim, he did make his first decision when he chose not to wear the stole. He could have as easily worn it, and the fact that he didn't was intentional and intended to send the message it did send. And this message polarizes how the Catholic world looks at things: simplicity and care for the poor, for the real important things on the one side and, on the other, pomp and lace and irrelevancy. Most people buy into this either/or view: either be relevant and simple, you know, like Christ, or Tradie and out of touch. Tradies are upset because the Pope, more than any other single individual, can affect how established this view becomes. So yes, Vox, our lives are affected. Top down action does affect the world. It provides the necessary form through which the bottom up substance can work.  We need a Francis who can wear lace with style. 
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#33
(03-17-2013, 09:10 AM)JayneK Wrote:
(03-17-2013, 08:54 AM)JustaServant Wrote:
(03-17-2013, 08:50 AM)JayneK Wrote: You are not dealing with anything substantive.  Instead you are posting personal attacks and insults.  If you are capable of engaging in rational discussion of ideas, I encourage you to do so.

Discussion of what?
Your beloved owner starts the thread off by using filthy language, and then her disciples use up bandwith trying to rationalize sin.
I thought you said you were a religious yourself.
Maybe you should take your husband's advice.

I suggest you ask a Catholic priest whether saying WTF is a sin.  Or ask Br. JR.  I am sure that he knows it is not a sin and will be able to explain this to you.

I am not a religious and have never claimed to be one.  I am a secular Franciscan.  At times, I describe myself simply as a Franciscan, as is common in the Franciscan orders.  

My husband came to see that he should not generalize from the behaviour of a few to condemn the entire forum.

I will take what Padre Pio says...I know I swear as much or more than anyone here, but that doesn't mean it's not a sin...

http://www.padrepio.catholicwebservices....onfess.htm

The devil is near to people who curse.

In a hotel in St. Giovanni Rotondo it was not possible to rest neither during the day nor at night because there was a girl who was possessed and shouted for hours. Everybody was frightened of her. The child’s mother brought her every day to the church. She hoped that Padre Pio would free the child from the evil spirit. The child also shouted a lot in the church. One day, when Padre Pio had finished hearing the women’s confessions, he met the child that howled fearfully in front of him. The child was being held back with difficulty by two or three men. The Saint was annoyed by the whole uproar and kicked the child with his foot and then he struck the child’s head and he said: "Stop! Enough!"
The child fell to the ground as if she was sleeping. Padre Pio told a doctor who was standing there, to bring the child to St. Michael, in the sanctuary of Monte Sant’Angelo. When the group reached the destination, they entered the cave where Saint Michael had appeared. The child revived but nobody succeeded in bringing her near to the altar of the Angel. In the midst of the confusion, a monk took the hand of the child and touched the altar. She fell down as if she had been struck by lightening. A few minutes later she woke up and as if nothing had happened she asked her mother: "Could you buy me an ice-cream?"

At that point the group of people returned to St. Giovanni Rotondo in order to inform and to thank Padre Pio. But Padre Pio told her mother: "Say to your husband not to curse anymore, otherwise the demon will return."
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#34
Peter, I will opt for the teaching of the Church, however much I revere St. Pio of Pietrelcina.

A truly holy priest of Opus Dei in Washington, D.C., while sitting next to my best friend and talking about current affairs, said to him, "Mike, sometimes you have to wonder what the f*** is going on."

Indeed.
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#35
Today is Passion Sunday and the Gospel is from S. John 8. 46-39. Fr. Remski at Livemass.net delivered a sermon on the Pharisees and explained why they hated Christ, and always tried to catch him on a technicality. Christ displayed his anger with them by calling them names and with criticizing them. Father said because they hated Him, their father was the Father of Lies, the devil. Then he said what has gone on since the election and all of the venom which has been spewed out over Pope Francis on any thing. He said the Pharisses are still with us, and he hoped we were not them.

You might want to give Father a listen.

tim
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#36
Let's see&give him a chance..
Look what's pope Francis gonna do on Easter series...
If he banish "traditionality" in the name of "humility", let's ask pope Benedict+ask him to be back on business again...

Of course we should be humble...but If it comes to "holy mass" terms...the priests,bishops,even The Pope, musn't desecrate and destroy the beautiful & grandeur Holy Mass in the name of humility...
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#37
The eff word might be socially frowned upon, perhaps called a vulgarity. It's considered rude to use in mixed company or around children. But it's not cursing. Cursing is damning a person or wishing evil on them. You may use the dreaded eff word when cursing someone, but in and of itself it's not cursing. Mere words cannot be sinful, only intentions can, and we have no way of judging Ms Vox's intentions, so stop trying to, it's pointless. Sheesh, when did Catholics start getting the vapors all over the place?
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#38
Thank you, Vox. Some have been too quick to demonize him, and already EWTN has him canonized. The Pope is a MAN who brings his own culture and spirituality, his own strengths and weaknesses, his own baggage. This time we are experiencing so many "firsts" -- the first pope to resign in 600 years, the first South American pope, the first Jesuit. Understandably we're going to be nervous, but some are projecting all their own hopes and expectations on the Pope. Yes, THAT is Papolatry. It's NOT giving the Pope the benefit of the doubt, but falling into almost-despair when things don't seem to be going our way. And if he is a bad Pope, well, it's not like we haven't had them before. The Church will survive.
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#39
Vox is asking the right questions.
Why do trad people make such a problem of the new Pope?

1) Prejudice
Even while we have not seen or heard much more than a first impression, people knew the future of the Church when seeing a pope without a red mozetta and stole? LMAO!

2) Narrowmindedness
Liturgy is important, faith is more important, but some trads seem to be so focussed on the way Mass is celebrated... Don't we feel that the catholic world and life are more than that?

3) Lack of humility
Even trads are modern critical people who are sometimes 'know it alls', making their own opinions or those of their own group the most safe light on their path. Obedience? Loyalty to the Pope? "Meh I can think for myself..."

4) Fear
The world we live in is not such a safe place, and to lose hope and confidence that everything will be fine is... ermmm... something that can happen.


It would be very trad to support a Pope, obey him, and shut up. Modern trads however are sometimes even worse than modernists when it comes to their own infallible opinions.

In the end I think we are talking too much, the discussion-disease. I feel sometimes flabbergasted by the vitriol in it.

It doesn't serve our life as catholics at all imho. It affects our prayer life... negatively...
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#40
(03-17-2013, 08:12 AM)JustaServant Wrote:
(03-17-2013, 06:26 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: And I have to ask:  WTF?

Is this the same mouth that will partake of the Eucharist this morning?
:eyeroll:

No worries; I went to a clown Mass lastnight!
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