Papolatry in the Trad World
#61
Excellent post JVP.  While we give the man the benefit of the doubt (THE JURY IS STILL OUT), there are reasons to have a sense of foreboding.  If Burke or Rajinthe had been named, the champaign corks would be popping around here.  There are reasons behind these feelings.
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#62
(03-17-2013, 02:46 PM)James02 Wrote: 1.  I don't know the background for that.
2.  Yes.  He was violating the rubrics.

That's the reason popes wear white cassocks today.
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#63
1. Was it pride that caused Saint Pius X to refuse to wear a cross of precious metals and to instead wear a cross of tin?

2. Was it pride that caused Saint Pius to sell off an expensive watch given to him for the benefit of the poor (Pius X said the cheap nickel watch he had bought as a parish priest worked just fine).

3. Was it pride that caused Saint Pius X to abolish the tradition of Urban VIII that the pope always dined alone?
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#64
No, I meant I have not studied the history behind the Pope's change.  Did he wear the Tiara, for instance?  Did they even have it back them?  

The big problem is Pope Francis is doing the exact opposite of what is needed.  He stresses that he is the Bishop of Rome.  Well that is true, but he puts his emphasis on that.  We have a Church that is out of control and desperately needs firm leadership.  Well, that got kicked out of the door on the first day of his papacy.

Just look at the Vatileaks scandal.
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#65
Again, the claim was made that Pope Francis was being humble by not following a very important custom.  That was not humility.  That is spiritual pride.
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#66
Yeah, they had the tiarra. Although Pius VII was crowned with one made of paper mache.

I don't think Francis is a slam dunk, but he certainly seems like he isn't going to let the curia micromanage him, which could be very good.

And, if he follows what he said in his first sermon as pope he will be a great pope. I am very disappointed that people have wanted to talk about the lack of lace at that mass than the great sermon he gave.

That's a big if, but I have no choice but to see what happens.

And, again was Pius X full of spiritual pride in ignoring some customs?
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#67
Someone1776,

I'll bail on the previous Pope questions, as I've said I have not studied them.  And to be honest, I have no interest in that.  If Pope Francis were to come out and say he believed the Church had become too worldly, and made changes that way, then you could see the prudence of it.  That still wouldn't be "humility".

I am a broken record, but the claim was made the Pope was being "humble" by breaking customs.  That is not correct.

And I'll retract my statement of accusing him of pride.  It COULD be spiritual pride.  It could be a well intentioned gaffe, on the other hand (taking into consideration that the Church is dying from lack of leadership right now).  It would be erroneous to call it humility.

True humility would be if he wore the trappings of authority, but then someone reports when they visit him in his personal quarters, they found them spartan.  Then I'd call him a humble person.
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#68
(03-17-2013, 03:05 PM)James02 Wrote: The big problem is Pope Francis is doing the exact opposite of what is needed.  He stresses that he is the Bishop of Rome.  Well that is true, but he puts his emphasis on that.  We have a Church that is out of control and desperately needs firm leadership.  Well, that got kicked out of the door on the first day of his papacy.

But it is his job to figure out what is needed, not yours.  He probably knows a lot more about it than you do.  He is exercising his leadership by showing everyone how we should understand the papacy.  He is not obliged to follow these customs.
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#69
Quote: But it is his job to figure out what is needed, not yours.
And hence the huge scandal acts like this can cause.

If it makes you feel better, chalk it up to him trying to correct what he believes is too much material wealth in the Church.  Ignore his stressing his title of Bishop of Rome.  That will scramble your brain.
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#70
(03-17-2013, 03:36 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(03-17-2013, 03:05 PM)James02 Wrote: The big problem is Pope Francis is doing the exact opposite of what is needed.  He stresses that he is the Bishop of Rome.  Well that is true, but he puts his emphasis on that.  We have a Church that is out of control and desperately needs firm leadership.  Well, that got kicked out of the door on the first day of his papacy.

But it is his job to figure out what is needed, not yours.  He probably knows a lot more about it than you do.  He is exercising his leadership by showing everyone how we should understand the papacy.  He is not obliged to follow these customs.
well we all know alot more about it than you....your right Pope Francis knows more than I for sure...but you know less than nothing except what your feverish emotional mind tells you.
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