pope francis: "theological narcissism"
#1
Apparently he said this just before he was elected.

http://mobile.usnews.com/news/newsgram/a...ism-speech

What do you guys think?
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#2
(03-30-2013, 10:59 PM)thatbirdwoman Wrote: Apparently he said this just before he was elected.

http://mobile.usnews.com/news/newsgram/a...ism-speech

What do you guys think?

I don't have any problems with it - as long as the Church focuses enough on Herself to have traditional sacramental rites, decent catechesis, good discipline, no lavender mafia running amok, etc.
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#3
I have no idea what he even means. "Existential periphery"? The Church must "go outside itself"? I won't try to decipher the code.

Speaking of which, I once saw a cloud in the sky that I was sure looked like a billy goat. My friend said it was definitely an ironing board,  but an innocent bystander swore up and down that it was Italy.
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#4
"When the church does not emerge from itself to evangelize, it becomes self-referential (1) and therefore becomes sick (2)... The evils that, over time, occur in ecclesiastical institutions(3) have their root in self-referentiality(4), a kind of theological narcissism...the church should "move outside itself to the existential peripheries(5)."

1) When the Church does not evangelize, it becomes self-referential
2) When the Church becomes self-referential it becomes sick
3) There are evils that occur in ecclesiastical institutions
4) The evils that occur in ecclesiastical institutions is rooted in self-referentiality
5) The Church should move outside itself to the existence that surrounds it


The Church is always evangelizing by her very presence in the world, there is never a time when she not evangelizing. Whether by the proselytizing of a missionary, the corporeal works of mercy done by Franciscans, a priest simply walking down a street in clerical attire or the Holy Sacrifice of Mass, she is always evangelizing. Therefore 1, 2, 4 are impossible.

The Church is the mouth piece of the living God, through her, and only through her, the world learns of the revealed truth. When the Church refers to herself for truth, she refers to The Truth, Jesus Christ. It is impossible for the truth to be evil. Therefore 2 and 4 are impossible.

Since the Church is always evangelizing, she is always moving amongst the world. She is always in motion. If 5 suggests doing this, 5 attempts to either self-validate it with a thing already in act or fails to recognize what is in act. 5 does not suggest this though, 5 asks of a physical impossibility. A particular cannot move "outside" itself, it either remains or moves to another location. 5 is thus incoherent.



What do I think? hmm...
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#5
So cloistered religious orders are really narcissistic.  Got it. 
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#6
TS Aquinas crisply summarizes my reaction to this bizarre statement.

I would only add that this, taken with Francis's rebuke of introspective search for God, appears if nothing else to be a direct attack on the contemplative life.  Keep in mind that St. Augustine wrote to the effect that after vainly search all over on the outside to find truth, it was there waiting for him inside (via contemplation.)

A traditional reading of Genesis is that the children of Cain following the active life chose the lesser portion compared to the children of Seth, who elected contemplation of God.

The apparent theology and ecclesial approach in this is at best hard to follow.
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#7
Maybe he meant priests should say the Mass ad orientum, not versus populum (closed circle)...  :LOL:
Lynne

+JMJ+

"Certainly, you must be informed about modern errors because preaching the truth involves preaching about distancing oneself from error; but do not make the negative, secondary aspect into the most important! Your first aim is not to fight against error but to know the truth. Your central concern should be study, your sanctification, silence, meditation, and the exercise of charity." - Archbishop Lefebvre
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#8
Our current Pope seems to believe that the Hierarchical, institutional Church is defective since we do not spend our time, talent and treasure responding to the needs of the poor and the marginalized. H.H. seems to be of the Vatican II mindset that the institution of the Church has eclipsed the Authentic Faith as established By Jesus Christ and the Apostles. H.H. seems to point to a return of a primitive Faith, rooted in service only, and a diminishing of the Institutional Church.
I think I remember this argument, from the LCWR, the USCCB, Fr. Reese, Fr. Kung, Von Balthasar, Lubec, et.al.

I hope I am mistaken, but this seems to me a return to the 70's and the New Springtime theology that assisted with the current destruction of Holy Mother Church.

Some seem glad to here this though:
http://www.catholicvoiceoakland.org/2013...tpage1.htm

"The day after Pope Francis was installed, by coincidence three Catholic speakers found cautious hope for church reform in the spirit of Vatican II."
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#9
I am not smart enough to solve that riddle.
odd question how many traditional esque cardinals are there. Just wondering if bets are on this is going to be norm. Since I am sure the cardinals appointed by him will be in step with him.
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