Wait, WHAT? Some Muslim cleric just called Pope Francis the 2nd Coming of Jesus.
#21
Edit button doesn't work for me now lol...

Okay, now I understand.  Like people have mentioned already it just means "thanks be to Allah" and not "Super Saiyan Allah" but that would be pretty cool.

I couldn't find a picture of Super Saiyan Allah to illustrate, so here's a picture of a super saiyan imam instead:

[Image: me21.png]
Reply
#22
(04-05-2013, 02:44 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: OMG those women!! What is THAT all about?

Shocked

Gorgeous women with too much makeup.
Reply
#23
LOL I love it! Super Saiyan Imam!

(04-05-2013, 08:26 PM)DrSlump Wrote:
(04-05-2013, 12:34 AM)StCeciliasGirl Wrote: 5. Masha’Allah (DBZ fans: sounds like Super Saiyan to me. Vegeta was cool, but then got REAL cool as a Super Saiyan.)

yay DBZ reference!  Cheers! ...but I don't really understand how it applies here  Blush

All these different Allah terms are completely new to me (and actually sound a little pretty!), but back in the "counting up Imams" days (do they still do that?) we had Muslim friends in college who differed by sect on which imam they were on, like the 11th or the 12th; I can't remember. And one said there was an Imam that had never died, and used the OT to try to "prove" it. Anyway, they would get in HELLA fights with each other, for real, over their beliefs if we weren't careful. The rest of us just didn't want things to get "testy", so we tried hard to keep things light. DBZ  Grin
Reply
#24
(04-11-2013, 04:49 PM)StCeciliasGirl Wrote: LOL I love it! Super Saiyan Imam!

(04-05-2013, 08:26 PM)DrSlump Wrote:
(04-05-2013, 12:34 AM)StCeciliasGirl Wrote: 5. Masha’Allah (DBZ fans: sounds like Super Saiyan to me. Vegeta was cool, but then got REAL cool as a Super Saiyan.)

yay DBZ reference!  Cheers! ...but I don't really understand how it applies here  Blush

All these different Allah terms are completely new to me (and actually sound a little pretty!), but back in the "counting up Imams" days (do they still do that?) we had Muslim friends in college who differed by sect on which imam they were on, like the 11th or the 12th; I can't remember. And one said there was an Imam that had never died, and used the OT to try to "prove" it. Anyway, they would get in HELLA fights with each other, for real, over their beliefs if we weren't careful. The rest of us just didn't want things to get "testy", so we tried hard to keep things light. DBZ  Grin

Okay, so here is the thing on Imams: Sunni (which is Arabic for "Tradition," meaning roughly "Orthopractic" or right practicing, literally from a phrase meaning "people of the tradition of Muhammad and the consensus of the Ummah") Muslims just call their local preacher an Imam, which means "leader."  A Sunni Imam is just the man authorized to lead others in prayer in the Mosque, and preach.

For the Shi'a (which means "Partisan" because they are the party of Ali, Mohamed's nephew and son-in-law), Imam means the infallible successor of Mohamed, similar roughly in some ways to the Pope (one big difference being that the Imam must be patrilineally descended from Ali, for most Shi'a).  Now, this gets complicated, because different Shi'a sects have different accounts of how the infallible authority of the Imam was passed down; some still have an Imam.  Karim Aga Khan is the 49th Imam since Ali according to the Ishmali sect.  But the major sect, the one that runs Iran, is the Twelvers: and by their account, the last Imam was Muḥammad ibn al-Ḥasan al-Mahdī who was borrn in 869, but went into "Occultation" (something like being assumed) when he was about 5 years old.  They believe he is still the Imam, and communicates with the faithful from beyond.  Weirdly, it kinda works out to Muslim sedevacantism: they believe in a visible, infallible authority that is unseen.

Anyways, the whole situation is pretty nutty.
Reply
#25
(04-11-2013, 06:43 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(04-11-2013, 04:49 PM)StCeciliasGirl Wrote: LOL I love it! Super Saiyan Imam!

(04-05-2013, 08:26 PM)DrSlump Wrote:
(04-05-2013, 12:34 AM)StCeciliasGirl Wrote: 5. Masha’Allah (DBZ fans: sounds like Super Saiyan to me. Vegeta was cool, but then got REAL cool as a Super Saiyan.)

yay DBZ reference!  Cheers! ...but I don't really understand how it applies here  Blush

All these different Allah terms are completely new to me (and actually sound a little pretty!), but back in the "counting up Imams" days (do they still do that?) we had Muslim friends in college who differed by sect on which imam they were on, like the 11th or the 12th; I can't remember. And one said there was an Imam that had never died, and used the OT to try to "prove" it. Anyway, they would get in HELLA fights with each other, for real, over their beliefs if we weren't careful. The rest of us just didn't want things to get "testy", so we tried hard to keep things light. DBZ  Grin

Okay, so here is the thing on Imams: Sunni (which is Arabic for "Tradition," meaning roughly "Orthopractic" or right practicing, literally from a phrase meaning "people of the tradition of Muhammad and the consensus of the Ummah") Muslims just call their local preacher an Imam, which means "leader."  A Sunni Imam is just the man authorized to lead others in prayer in the Mosque, and preach.

For the Shi'a (which means "Partisan" because they are the party of Ali, Mohamed's nephew and son-in-law), Imam means the infallible successor of Mohamed, similar roughly in some ways to the Pope (one big difference being that the Imam must be patrilineally descended from Ali, for most Shi'a).  Now, this gets complicated, because different Shi'a sects have different accounts of how the infallible authority of the Imam was passed down; some still have an Imam.  Karim Aga Khan is the 49th Imam since Ali according to the Ishmali sect.  But the major sect, the one that runs Iran, is the Twelvers: and by their account, the last Imam was Muḥammad ibn al-Ḥasan al-Mahdī who was borrn in 869, but went into "Occultation" (something like being assumed) when he was about 5 years old.  They believe he is still the Imam, and communicates with the faithful from beyond.  Weirdly, it kinda works out to Muslim sedevacantism: they believe in a visible, infallible authority that is unseen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Occultation

Anyways, the whole situation is pretty nutty.  Crazy
Reply
#26
StCeciliasGirl Wrote:These can't be regular Muslims, right? What am I missing. Are there suddenly now "Messianic Jewish Christian Muslims"? (Is that even a thing?)

Sufis are not Muslim, though they claim to be. Sufism is a "bid'ah" (innovation). Innovation in Islam is forbidden because it would mean that the religion was imperfect from the time of Muhammad until the time of the innovation. But orthodox Muslims do not declare Sufis "kuffar" (unbelievers) because it is a sin that causes "fitna" (chaos) to accuse an alleged Muslim of being a "kafir" or even a sinner. "Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe." (Qur'an, 2:6)

Interesting side note: Sufi supposedly comes from the Arabic word "soof" wool. The early Sufis wore woolen coats in imitation of "Isa bin Maryam" (Jesus son of Mary). Muslims wear cotton in imitation of Muhammad. Some Sufis also venerate Christian saints.

Sufi music is pretty cool:



Reply
#27
Ah, Sufis. Of the muslims, my favorite group are the Sufis. In fact, I think of all the muslims, they are the most likely to convert. One of the big reasons they are disputed in Islam is that they reflect a very "Christian" mindset in many ways. Just check out this poetry:

Quote:    Hidden behind the veil of mystery, Beauty is eternally free from the slightest stain of imperfection.  From the atoms of the world, He created a multitude of mirrors; into each one of them He cast the image of His Face; to the awakened eye, anything that appears beautiful is only a reflection of that Face.

    Now that you have seen the reflection, hurry to its Source; in that primordial Light the reflection vanishes completely.  Do not linger far from that primal Source; when the reflection fades, you will be lost in darkness.  The reflection is as transient as the smile of a rose; if you want permanence, turn towards the Source; if you want fidelity, look to the Mine of faithfulness.  Why tear your soul apart over something here one moment and gone the next?

      Jami, translation by Andrew Harvey and Eryk Hanut - 'Perfume of the Desert'
http://wahiduddin.net/sufi/sufi_poetry.htm#Jami

Quote:Whether your destiny is glory or disgrace,
Purify yourself of hatred and love of self.
Polish your mirror; and that sublime Beauty
From the regions of mystery
Will flame out in your heart
As it did for the saints and prophets.
Then, with your heart on fire with that Splendor,
The secret of the Beloved will no longer be hidden.

      Jami, translation by Andrew Harvey and Eryk Hanut - 'Perfume of the Desert'

Rumi, the absolute poetic master... though all Sufi poets just engaged in continuing wine poetry and attempting mysticism:

Quote:The Jesus of your spirit is inside you now.
Ask that one for help, but don't ask for body-things...

Don't ask Moses for provisions
that you can get from Pharaoh.

Don't worry so much about livelihood.
Your livelihood will turn out as it should.
Be constantly occupied instead
with listening to God.

        Rumi, Mathnawi II:450-454

This is fairly heavy if you think of it in the context of Christ's wounds, and being in a state of grace:
Quote:You've no idea how hard I've looked for a gift to bring You.
Nothing seemed right.

What's the point of bringing gold to the gold mine, or water to the Ocean.
Everything I came up with was like taking spices to the Orient.

It's no good giving my heart and my soul because you already have these.

So- I've brought you a mirror.

Look at yourself and remember me.
   
        - Jalaluddin Rumi, Essential Rumi, Coleman Barks, pg141

Gosh.. just wow:
Quote:My heart tells me it is distressed with Him,
but I can only laugh at such pretended injuries.

Be fair, You who are the Glory of the just.
You, Soul, free of "we" and "I,"
subtle spirit within each man and woman.

When a man and a woman become one,
that "one" is You.
And when that one is obliterated, there You are.

Where is this "we" and this "I"?
By the side of the Beloved.
You made this "we" and this "I"
in order that you might play
this game of courtship with Yourself,
that all "you's" and "I's" might become one soul
and finally drown in the Beloved.

All this is true. Come!
You who are the Creative Word: Be
You, so far beyond description.

Is it possible for the bodily eyes to see You?
Can thought comprehend Your laughter or grief?
Tell me now, can it possibly see You at all?
Such a heart has only borrowed things to live with.

The garden of love is green without limit
and yields many fruits other than sorrow or joy.
Love is beyond either condition:
without spring, without autumn, it is always fresh.

      Rumi - Mathnawi I, 1779-1794 - The Rumi Collection - Kabir Helminski

Sanai:
Quote:Don't speak of your suffering -- He is speaking.
Don't look for Him everywhere -- He's looking for you.

An ant's foot touches a leaf, He senses it;
A pebble shifts in a streambed, He knows it.

If there's a worm hidden deep in a rock,
He'll know its body, tinier than an atom,

The sound of its praise, its secret ecstasy --
All this He knows by divine knowing.

He has given the tiniest worm its food;
He has opened to you the Way of the Holy Ones.

      Sanai

Quote:Those unable to grieve,
or to speak of their love,
or to be grateful, those
who can't remember God
as the source of everything,

might be described as a vacant wind,
or a cold anvil, or a group
of frightened old people.

Say the Name. Moisten your tongue
with praise, and be the spring ground,
waking. Let your mouth be given
its gold-yellow stamen like the wild rose's.

As you fill with wisdom,
and your heart with love,
there's no more thirst.

There's only unselfed patience
waiting on the doorsill, a silence
which doesn't listen to advice
from people passing in the street.


      Sanai - "Persian Poems" - Coleman Barks

A female Sufi poet...

Quote: Rabi'a al-'Adawiyya (717 - 801 ce) was born in Basra. As a child, after the death of her parents, Rabi'a was sold into slavery. After years of service to her slavemaster, Rabi'a began to serve only the Beloved with her actions and thoughts. Since she was no longer useful to the slaveowner, Rabi'a was then set free to continue her devotion to the Beloved.

Rabia taught that the true lover, whose consciousness is unwaveringly centered on the Beloved, is unattached to conditions such as pleasure or pain, not from sensory dullness but from ceaseless rapture in Divine Love.



Rabia was once asked, "How did you attain that which you have attained?"
"By often praying, 'I take refuge in You, O God, from everything that distracts me from You, and from every obstacle that prevents me from reaching You.'"

    Rabi´a al-Adawiyya, translation by Andrew Harvey and Eryk Hanut - 'Perfume of the Desert'

Too bad the NO Mass wasn't around, she could have experienced the bold Wink :

Quote:Brothers, my peace is in my aloneness.
My Beloved is alone with me there, always.
I have found nothing in all the worlds
That could match His love,
This love that harrows the sands of my desert.
If I come to die of desire
And my Beloved is still not satisfied,
I would live in eternal despair.

To abandon all that He has fashioned
And hold in the palm of my hand
Certain proof that He loves me---
That is the name and the goal of my search.


Sufis... just wow. Except the kooks.

    Rabi´a al-Adawiyya, translation by Andrew Harvey and Eryk Hanut - 'Perfume of the Desert'
Reply
#28
Dang it with the no modifying and not paying attention to quote tag location before adding comments.
"Sufis... just wow. Except the kooks."
Reply
#29
Some of the Sufi's do seem to approach some depths of truth which elude the more orthodox of the Muhammadans.
Reply
#30
Urdu Sufi poem:

Don't feel perturbed when Eternal God is here
When despair our hearts doth maul,
Atheists too recall thy name
Children might forget their mother in prosperous days
But it is her they think of in times of sorrow

Modern song by Iranian singer Azam Ali:





Allah wohi hai tau na muztir ho
Jab maayusi dilon pe chhaa jaati hai
Dushman se bhi naam tera japwaati hai
Allah wohi hai tau na muztir ho
Mumkin hai ke sukh mein bhul jaaen itfaal
Lekin unhein dukh mein maan hi yaad aati hai
Allah wohi hai tau na muztir ho

jonbhorton Wrote:Too bad the NO Mass wasn't around, she could have experienced the bold Wink

Communion on the tongue had become common by then, but it was still received in the hand:

Bede's Ecclesiastical History of England: "Nevertheless," said he, "bring me the Eucharist." Having received It into his hand, he asked, whether they were all in charity with him, and had no complaint against him, nor any quarrel or grudge.

Earlier testimonies:

Tertullian, On Idolatry: A whole day the zeal of faith will direct its pleadings to this quarter: bewailing that a Christian should come from idols into the Church; should come from an adversary workshop into the house of God; should raise to God the Father hands which are the mothers of idols; should pray to God with the hands which, out of doors, are prayed to in opposition to God; should apply to the Lord's body those hands which confer bodies on demons.

Augustine, Answer to Petilian the Donatist: To this we may add, that I refer to a man who lived with you, whose birthday you were wont to celebrate with such large assemblies, with whom you joined in the kiss of peace in the sacraments, in whose hands you placed the Eucharist, to whom in turn you extended your hands to receive it from his ministering, whose ears, when they were deaf amid the groanings of all Africa, you dared not offend by free speech; for paying to whom, even indirectly, a most witty compliment, by saying that in the Count he had a god for his companion, some one of your party was extolled to the skies.

Cyprian of Carthage, Treatise 3: And another woman, when she tried with unworthy hands to open her box, in which was the holy (body) of the Lord, was deterred by fire rising from it from daring to touch it. And when one, who himself was defiled, dared with the rest to receive secretly a part of the sacrifice celebrated by the priest; he could not eat nor handle the holy of the Lord, but found in his hands when opened that he had a cinder.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)