"There are those who wish to turn back the clock...this is called stubbornness."
#21
I don't think this means what you think it means.
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#22
It's not only the Mass. Faith and morals have been corrupted by churchmen in the wake of V-2. That's why "restoring" the traditional Mass alone won't work. If V-2 wasn't a failure, there would not be the need to endlessly try to prove its legitimacy...
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#23
(04-16-2013, 12:50 PM)OldMan Wrote: It's not only the Mass. Faith and morals have been corrupted by churchmen in the wake of V-2. That's why "restoring" the traditional Mass alone won't work. If V-2 wasn't a failure, there would not be the need to endlessly try to prove its legitimacy...

Of course Vatican II has been a failure but again we must see it from the perspective not of the pew sitters but of the prelates. In their view the failure of V2 was not the council it self but the implementation of it. I know that many of us disagree with that assessment however, we must as educated in the subject not simply jump out of emotion by every utter thing that is said. We must remain level headed and knowledgeable of our position and the views around it.

A statement like the one make makes perfect sense if you think that the council was either hijacked or not implemented. Both views are consistent with those that view the council as a failure.
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#24
He's not talking about the SSPX; he's talking about ALL those who haven't embraced the FailMass, and he's pointing to Summa Pontificum in particular. The Bishop of Rome [sic] is dissing His Holiness Emeritus on his birthday. That's so humble. —said no one ever.
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#25
Even I do not want to return to the 1950"s. The TLM is safe with SP of Benedict XVI, so he ain't talking about that. He is not talking about dogma or doctrine if we judge by the other things he has said. What he is talking about is the ossification of the Church. In short no more kings and kingdoms no Hapsburgs.

Some of you remember the Church before the Vatican II, and you know this website would have been taken down and most of us excommunicated, in 1957. I'm not saying what has been handed down can change but because the clerics were the problem which caused the Reformation we have been treated like cattle. I don't want to go back, and I told Peabody that.

There s a bunch of truth in the ignoring the Holy Ghost. The Church itself has nibbled away at Faith and Miracles since Albertus Magnus and Thomas of Aquino. What you see is the logical end of reasoning, all of the miraculous that could be is removed in the Liturgy. It's gone. It could be a meeting of the Lions Club. On the flip side the trads trust documents first and the Holy Ghost last.

It was taught to us that when we received the Holy Ghost in Confirmation we were soldiers fully equipped to slay the serpent, to day that isn't so. This needs to be re-emphasized. We need to move forward, and trads needs to stop playing theologians, take what you know, and the TLM, and get your asses out there and evangelize. This is our job, not sifting every word for possible heresy, that's above our pay grade.

tim


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#26
Very well said, Tim.
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#27
(04-16-2013, 11:26 AM)Lee Timmer Wrote:
(04-16-2013, 11:24 AM)Felix E Wrote:
(04-16-2013, 11:22 AM)Lee Timmer Wrote: Robber Council VII.

:Hmm: :O :O :'((

Dude, that can't be right.

I stand by it.

I have to stand with you there.
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#28
Isn't Toyota the company that had the slogan "moving forward"?
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#29
(04-16-2013, 01:41 PM)Tim Wrote: Even I do not want to return to the 1950"s. The TLM is safe with SP of Benedict XVI, so he ain't talking about that. He is not talking about dogma or doctrine if we judge by the other things he has said. What he is talking about is the ossification of the Church. In short no more kings and kingdoms no Hapsburgs.

Some of you remember the Church before the Vatican II, and you know this website would have been taken down and most of us excommunicated, in 1957. I'm not saying what has been handed down can change but because the clerics were the problem which caused the Reformation we have been treated like cattle. I don't want to go back, and I told Peabody that.

There s a bunch of truth in the ignoring the Holy Ghost. The Church itself has nibbled away at Faith and Miracles since Albertus Magnus and Thomas of Aquino. What you see is the logical end of reasoning, all of the miraculous that could be is removed in the Liturgy. It's gone. It could be a meeting of the Lions Club. On the flip side the trads trust documents first and the Holy Ghost last.

It was taught to us that when we received the Holy Ghost in Confirmation we were soldiers fully equipped to slay the serpent, to day that isn't so. This needs to be re-emphasized. We need to move forward, and trads needs to stop playing theologians, take what you know, and the TLM, and get your asses out there and evangelize. This is our job, not sifting every word for possible heresy, that's above our pay grade.

tim


Oh, Tim.  You're so knowledgable and articulate, and yet you don't pull any punches.  :clap: :w2go: :tiphat:
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#30
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son,
and to the Holy Spirit,
as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be,
world without end. Amen.
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