"There are those who wish to turn back the clock...this is called stubbornness."
#31
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son,
and to the Holy Spirit,
as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be,
world without end. Amen.
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#32
(04-16-2013, 12:46 PM)Unum Sint Wrote: I don't think this means what you think it means.

I don't know what the Holy Father meant.
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#33
Interesting no one has made the connection between his remarks about the Holy Spirit moving the Church forward and his praise of Vatican II.
Obviously he is suggesting that the true council hasn't been implimented yet, but any guesses on what he means by that?
I think it is pretty clear he wants more compromise with the modern world.
I hope I am wrong but given the sermon of the papal preacher, his washing the feet of a muslim woman, his distain for papal traditions and his lack of sophistication where liturgy is concerned, this all suggests that he is a tried and true child of Paul VI.
Wake up people, its going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better and sugar coating his every word isn't going to make the pill any less bitter.
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#34
(04-16-2013, 04:49 PM)winoblue1 Wrote: Interesting no one has made the connection between his remarks about the Holy Spirit moving the Church forward and his praise of Vatican II.
Obviously he is suggesting that the true council hasn't been implimented yet, but any guesses on what he means by that?
I think it is pretty clear he wants more compromise with the modern world.
I hope I am wrong but given the sermon of the papal preacher, his washing the feet of a muslim woman, his distain for papal traditions and his lack of sophistication where liturgy is concerned, this all suggests that he is a tried and true child of Paul VI.
Wake up people, its going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better and sugar coating his every word isn't going to make the pill any less bitter.

Liberals are always "moving forward."
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#35
(04-16-2013, 12:32 PM)Lee Timmer Wrote:
(04-16-2013, 12:26 PM)DustinsDad Wrote:
Quote: Nowadays, he went on, “everybody seems happy about the presence of the Holy Spirit but it’s not really the case and there is still that temptation to resist it.” The Pope said one example of this resistance was the Second Vatican council which he called “a beautiful work of the Holy Spirit.” But 50 years later, “have we done everything the Holy Spirit was asking us to do during the Council,” he asked. The answer is “No,” said Pope Francis. “We celebrate this anniversary, we put up a monument but we don’t want it to upset us. We don’t want to change and what’s more there are those who wish to turn the clock back.” This, he went on, “is called stubbornness and wanting to tame the Holy Spirit.”

Yes, we have not gone far enough in watering down dogma, in blurring the line between the One True Church and false religions, in promoting religious indifferentism, in blurring the line between priest and people, in embracing banal on the spot liturgy, in heaping praise on false religions, in embracing what Pope Paul VI called "the Cult of Man" - ah yes...there's so much left to do.

This is bad and I feel sick to my stomach. How long for the chastisement Lord? How long?

Anyone who calls VII a "beautiful work of the Holy Spirit" is delusional. The problem isn't the implementation or the "spirit" or any of that other BS; it's the documents themselves and the "spirit" that created them.

## That's what comes of trying so hard to rush into temptation. I think the Church was tired of being protected from evil, & that it was bored of God - so it deliberately made itself as vulnerable as it could, by throwing off every protection it had, and seeking out evil: just to see what it was like. It knows now. People behave like that - it wouldn't surprise me if the Church had been permitted to act in that way. If it wanted confusion, it has it.
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#36
Well here is what Cardinal Kasper had to say the other day about Vatican Council II, and for once, on of the instigators is telling the truth!

"Cardinal Walter Kasper made a stunning statement in the pages of L'Osservatore Romano this past Friday. In offering some reflections on the challenges facing the Church and the continued (perpetual) problem of the "true implementation of Vatican II", Kasper, speaking with reference to the documents of the Council, stated:

"In many places, [the Council Fathers] had to find compromise formulas, in which, often, the positions of the majority are located immediately next to those of the minority, designed to delimit them. Thus, the conciliar texts themselves have a huge potential for conflict, open the door to a selective reception in either direction." (Cardinal Walter Kasper,  L'Osservatore Romano, April 12, 2013)"

Article here:
http://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.co...guity.html

Many have documented and claimed this for years, only to be accused of being divisive and stuck in the past. Well now one of their own has stated what we knew all along. The council was hijacked, the documents were intentionally made ambiguous, and a small group within the Church set about destroying Her from the top down. As we go forward we will very soon have to decide to fish or cut bait. Stand with the True Church, or with the pretend Church created out of Vatican Council II. >:(
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#37
(04-16-2013, 04:59 PM)Leo Rugiens Wrote:
(04-16-2013, 12:32 PM)Lee Timmer Wrote:
(04-16-2013, 12:26 PM)DustinsDad Wrote:
Quote: Nowadays, he went on, “everybody seems happy about the presence of the Holy Spirit but it’s not really the case and there is still that temptation to resist it.” The Pope said one example of this resistance was the Second Vatican council which he called “a beautiful work of the Holy Spirit.” But 50 years later, “have we done everything the Holy Spirit was asking us to do during the Council,” he asked. The answer is “No,” said Pope Francis. “We celebrate this anniversary, we put up a monument but we don’t want it to upset us. We don’t want to change and what’s more there are those who wish to turn the clock back.” This, he went on, “is called stubbornness and wanting to tame the Holy Spirit.”

Yes, we have not gone far enough in watering down dogma, in blurring the line between the One True Church and false religions, in promoting religious indifferentism, in blurring the line between priest and people, in embracing banal on the spot liturgy, in heaping praise on false religions, in embracing what Pope Paul VI called "the Cult of Man" - ah yes...there's so much left to do.

This is bad and I feel sick to my stomach. How long for the chastisement Lord? How long?

Anyone who calls VII a "beautiful work of the Holy Spirit" is delusional. The problem isn't the implementation or the "spirit" or any of that other BS; it's the documents themselves and the "spirit" that created them.

## That's what comes of trying so hard to rush into temptation. I think the Church was tired of being protected from evil, & that it was bored of God - so it deliberately made itself as vulnerable as it could, by throwing off every protection it had, and seeking out evil: just to see what it was like. It knows now. People behave like that - it wouldn't surprise me if the Church had been permitted to act in that way. If it wanted confusion, it has it.

I said something along the same lines many years ago when I left the Novus Ordo Church. It’s almost as if Our Lord said, “You want to defy Me? Fine. You can have your little Council with all its heresies and ambiguities. Just don’t come to me crying when it all blows up.”
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#38
(04-16-2013, 04:49 PM)winoblue1 Wrote: Interesting no one has made the connection between his remarks about the Holy Spirit moving the Church forward and his praise of Vatican II.
Obviously he is suggesting that the true council hasn't been implimented yet, but any guesses on what he means by that?

## "You have used 1 out of n x 10x Vatican 2 implementation attempts. After all n x 10x have been used, you will be unable to try implementing Vatican 2 for 15 minutes." He sounds very computer-savvy. 

Quote:I think it is pretty clear he wants more compromise with the modern world.

## One of his recent sermons gives a slightly different impression - if only I can find it.  :scratchinghead: It was about Catholics not compromising on doctrine.
Quote:I hope I am wrong but given the sermon of the papal preacher, his washing the feet of a muslim woman, his distain for papal traditions and his lack of sophistication where liturgy is concerned, this all suggests that he is a tried and true child of Paul VI.
Wake up people, its going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better and sugar coating his every word isn't going to make the pill any less bitter.

## :fastens seat-belt for a very bumpy ride:
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#39
(04-16-2013, 05:09 PM)Dmorgan Wrote: Well here is what Cardinal Kasper had to say the other day about Vatican Council II, and for once, on of the instigators is telling the truth!

"Cardinal Walter Kasper made a stunning statement in the pages of L'Osservatore Romano this past Friday. In offering some reflections on the challenges facing the Church and the continued (perpetual) problem of the "true implementation of Vatican II", Kasper, speaking with reference to the documents of the Council, stated:

"In many places, [the Council Fathers] had to find compromise formulas, in which, often, the positions of the majority are located immediately next to those of the minority, designed to delimit them. Thus, the conciliar texts themselves have a huge potential for conflict, open the door to a selective reception in either direction." (Cardinal Walter Kasper,  L'Osservatore Romano, April 12, 2013)"

Article here:
http://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.co...guity.html

Many have documented and claimed this for years, only to be accused of being divisive and stuck in the past. Well now one of their own has stated what we knew all along. The council was hijacked, the documents were intentionally made ambiguous, and a small group within the Church set about destroying Her from the top down. As we go forward we will very soon have to decide to fish or cut bait. Stand with the True Church, or with the pretend Church created out of Vatican Council II. >:(

The neocon extremist ultramontantists will grant this though and recede to the ground "yes you can draw two separate interpretations but we should only accept the interpretation that is non contradictory with dogma and tradition." Problem is things like praying with non Catholics. That's one of many irreconcilable errors, no amount of modern philosophical linguistics can demonstrate non contradiction.
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#40
Resisting the Holy Ghost leads to the unforgivable sin.
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