Vaccination Issues
#31
Quote:But, in truth, few things meet the definition of "harmless." Even everyday activities contain hidden dangers. For example, each year in the United States, 350 people are killed in bath- or shower-related accidents, 200 people are killed when food lodges in their windpipe, and 100 people are struck and killed by lightning. However, few of us consider eating solid food, taking a bath, or walking outside on a rainy day as unsafe activities. We just figure that the benefits of the activity clearly outweigh its risks.
 
The obvious problem with this analogy is that they are comparing apples to oranges. If I don't eat, I die. Period. If I don't bathe...well...we won't go there. If I spent my entire life indoors, that would cause serious health problems as well. Not one of these things can be seriously compared to deliberately having your children injected with something that can be life-threatening. As I said before, the child may turn out just fine - the problem is you won't know that until after the fact.
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#32
You are excused Kathy!!  [Image: laff.gif]  Congratualations on your son and grandsons first Holy Communion. Deo Gratias! What a blessed event in all of your lives!!!

In Christ
Monique

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#33
Monique,
 
I'm back. First Holy Communion was just lovely. I wish everyone could have seen the look of sheer wonder and awe on my 7 y.o.'s face. It was dazzling.
 
 
Quote:I agree with the first part, but if your child is the one shedding virus, and infecting unsuspecting pregnant women who subsequently have a baby spontaneously abort, born deaf or blind or retarded ,you then are presuming that some are indeed expendable. I agree that the use of aborted fetuses in the Rubella vaccine is unconscionable and an alternative should be demanded.
 
I don't have any kids with CRS which, according to the CDC website, is a condition for shedding the virus. CRS infants can shed it up to a year, so pregnant women should probably not change the nappies of CRS infants. That seems easy enough.
 
What I find troubling is the fact that (presuming initial effectiveness) the vaccine does not provide life-long immunity, so the population at highest risk for contracting rubella is the same poulation that has the greatest danger from it- young adult women.
 
Quote:
What I was referring to was someone I knew personally. I would send the question out to all who are reading this thread,do you personally know someone who have had a child permanently maimed or killed by an immunization? I don't and nor do any of my friends. (I asked). Nor has my pediatrician of 12 years had in her practice a child maimed by an immunization. My point is not that it does not happen, obviously there are risks involved, but they are a rare occurrence.

 
Yes, I do know someone personally. She is about 16. She suffered a permanent disability after an MMR, a severe form of autism called Rett Syndrome. In fact, her blood titers were so high when tested that the lab wondered if her mom hadn't contracted rubella during pregnancy. But, she was fine whan she was born and became ill after vaccination, not before.
 
Lots of people become permanently ill from the vaccine. Tying into the above point, when given to postpartum mothers, their breasfed infants can contract the disease. CRS can occur when a pregnant woman is vaccinated or exposed to a vaccinated individual, too. Yet no one involved in vaccination policy or manufacturing seriously studies these safety issues, leaving young mothers and infants at risk for serious complications from a normally benign disease.
 
Quote:Refusing to vaccinate at the risk to my children and others, especially unborn babies is not an acceptable risk to me. We do have a God given responsibility to others- Love your neighbor as yourself. Sometimes God calls us to risk for others, even those we don't even know. Even at our own peril.
 
Before anyone puts themselves or their children at risk, the facts should be thoroughly researched. Catholics are not called to be socialists and vaccination policy is pure socialism. Here is an article that gives some insight into the very real dangers of bad vaccination policy:

Quote:

STATEMENT of the ASSOCIATION OF AMERICAN PHYSICIANS & SURGEONS
http://www.aapsonline.org/aaps/

to the Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy, and Human Resources of the Committee on Government Reform U.S. House of Representatives

RE: HEPATITIS B VACCINE

Submitted by Jane Orient, M.D.

June 14, 1999

Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee:

My name is Jane Orient, M.D. I am a practicing internist from Tucson, Arizona, and serve as the Executive Director of the Association of American Physicians & Surgeons ("AAPS"). AAPS is a nationwide organization of physicians devoted to defending the sanctity of the patient-physician relationship. AAPS revenue is derived almost exclusively from membership dues. We receive no government funding, foundation grants, or revenue from vaccine manufacturers. No members of our governing body (the Board of Directors), have a conflict of interest because of a position with an agency making vaccine policy or any entity deriving profits from mandatory vaccines. AAPS thanks this Committee and Chairman Mica for leaving the record open for a longer period to permit an opportunity to review the hearing transcript, written testimony, and raw data from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).

It is apparent that critical medical decisions for an entire generation of American children are being made by small committees whose members have incestuous ties with agencies that stand to gain power, or manufacturers that stand to gain enormous profits, from the policy that is made.

Even if such members recuse themselves from specific votes, they are permitted to participate in discussions and thus influence the decision.

Moreover, there is the potential for deal-making. Or there may be a simple disinclination to cause problems for one member's agenda in the expectation that that member will reciprocate.

Once a vaccine is mandated for children, the manufacturer and the physician administering the vaccine are substantially relieved of liability for adverse effects. The relationship of patient and physician is dramatically altered: in administering the vaccine, the physician is serving as the agent of the state. To the extent that the physician simply complies without making an independent evaluation of the appropriateness of the vaccine for each patient, he is abdicating his responsibility under the Oath of Hippocrates to "prescribe regimen for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone."

Should a physician advise against a mandated vaccine, he faces increased legal liability should the patient acquire the disease. Moreover, he may risk his very livelihood if he is dependent upon income from"health plans" that use vaccine compliance as a measure of "quality." It is perhaps not surprising, although still reprehensible, that physicians sometimes behave in a very callous manner toward parents who question the need for certain vaccines.

Federal policy of mandating vaccines marks a profound change in the concept of public health. Traditionally, public health authorities restricted the liberties of individuals only in case of a clear and present danger to public health. For example, individuals infected with a transmissible disease were quarantined. Today, a child may be prevented from attending school or associating with others simply because of being unimmunized. If there is not an outbreak of disease and if the child is uninfected, his or her unimmunized state is not a threat to anyone. An abridgement of civil rights in such cases cannot be justified. With hepatitis B vaccine, the case for mandatory immunization with few exemptions is far less persuasive than with smallpox or polio vaccines, which protected against highly lethal or disabling, relatively common, and easily transmissible diseases. An intelligent and conscientious physician might well recommend AGAINST hepatitis B vaccine, especially in newborns, unless a baby is at unusual risk because of an infected mother or household contact or membership in a population in which disease is common.

AAPS awaits the release of full information concerning the licensure of hepatitis B vaccine and the mandate for newborn immunizations, as requested under the Freedom of Information Act by the National Vaccine Information Center. It is imperative that independent scientists have the opportunity to review the raw data. In the meantime, all coercive means for increasing the immunization rate should be immediately discontinued. Fully informed consent should be sought before vaccine is administered. This requires full and honest disclosure of the risks and uncertainties of the vaccine, in comparison with the risks of the disease.

Information given to parents about this vaccine often does not meet the requirement for full disclosure. For example, it may state that "getting the disease is far more likely to cause serious illness than getting the vaccine." This may be literally true, but it is seriously misleading if the risk of getting the disease is nearly zero (as is true for most American newborns). It may also be legalistically true that "no serious reactions have been known to occur due to the hepatitis B recombinant vaccine." However, relevant studies have not been done to investigate whether the temporal association of vaccine with serious side effects is purely coincidental or not.

An independent review of the VAERS data; publications by governmental, pro-vaccine, and anti-vaccine groups; and a sample of the medical literature leads to the following conclusions:

Ø For most children, the risk of a serious vaccine reaction may be 100 times greater than the risk of hepatitis B. Overall, the incidence of hepatitis B in the U.S. is currently about 4 per 100,000. The risk for most young children is far less; hepatitis B is heavily concentrated in groups at high risk due to occupation, sexual promiscuity, or drug abuse.

 

VAERS contains 25,000 reports related to hepatitis B vaccine, about one-third of which were serious enough to lead to an emergency room visit,hospitalization, or death. It is often assumed that only 10% of reactions are reported. (This committee has heard testimony about persons being actively discouraged from reporting, even if they are aware of the reporting system.) Thus, if there have been some 80,000 serious adverse reactions associated with 20 million doses of vaccine, the risk is about 4 in 1000. (This calculation depends on many assumptions.

Moreover, many of the patients experiencing temporally associated adverse reactions had simultaneously received more than one vaccine. Nevertheless, a better estimate has not been put forth.)

It should be noted that a less than 1 in 1,000,000 purely hypothetical risk may be used to justify costly federal regulations on highly useful products that are used voluntarily.

ØIn nearly 20% of VAERS reports, the first of eight listed side effects suggests central nervous system involvement. examining the first listed effects shows about 4,600 involving such symptoms as prolonged screaming, agitation, apnea, ataxia, visual disturbances, convulsions, tremors, twitches, an abnormal cry, hypotonia, hypertonia, abnormal sensations, stupor, somn-olence, neck rigidity, paralysis, confusion, and oculogyric crisis. The last is a striking feature of post-encephalitic Parkinson's disease, or it may occur as a dystonic reaction to certain drugs such as phenothiazines.

 

The CDC admits that the results of ongoing studies on a potential association of hepatitis B vaccine and demyelinating diseases such as multiple sclerosis are not yet available.

ØThere may be large genetic differences in susceptibility to vaccine adverse effects. The committee has been told that serious reported adverse effects seem restricted to Caucasians. Yet the oft-cited long-term safety study was conducted in Alaskan natives, and many studies involved Asians.

In adults, 77% of the reactions involve women, who are generally more susceptible to autoimmune diseases. This deserves serious study, not off-hand dismissal ("nurses always over-report"). Universal immunization could lead to disproportionate injury to susceptible populations, who might also be the least affected by the disease one is trying to prevent.

ØStriking increases in chronic illnesses have occurred in temporal association with an increase in vaccination rates. Asthma and insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus, causes of lifelong morbidity and frequent premature death, have nearly doubled in

incidence since the introduction of many new, mandatory vaccines. There is no explanation for this increase. The temporal association, although not probative, is suggestive and demands intense investigation.

Instead of following up on earlier, foreign studies suggesting a greater-than-chance association, the CDC, through vaccine mandates, is obliterating the control group (unvaccinated children). Dr. Classen testified concerning his opinion that hepatitis Bvaccine could precipitate diabetes mellitus. Of note, VAERS contains more than 4,000 reports of abdominal symptoms that could have been due to pancreatitis, which was probably not specifically sought and thus missed if present.

Even more alarming is the huge increase in reports of autism and attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder, with devastating, life-long impacts. Much of this could be due to overdiagnosis (now rewarded by numerous government subsidies). The change in behavior that many parents observe related to vaccines could be coincidental, or it might reflect a desperate need to explain a disastrous occurrence. Nonetheless, the implications are so grave that immediate investigation is needed. Measles, mumps, rubella, hepatitis B, and the whole panoply of childhood diseases are a far less serious threat than having a large fraction (say 10%) of a generation afflicted with learning disability and/or uncontrollable aggressive behavior because of an impassioned crusade for universal vaccination.

There are plausible mechanisms such as molecular mimicry whereby vaccines could have such effects. Basic research, as well as epidemiologic studies (starting with a long-term follow-up of reactions reported to VAERS), is urgent.

 

 

ØHepatitis B vaccine as a cause of sudden infant death has not been ruled out. The mere observation that the incidence of SIDS has decreased while hepatitis B immunization rates have increased proves nothing whatsoever. In other contexts, the Back to Sleep campaign is credited with a dramatic fall in SIDS; the fall might have been much greater without hepatitis B immunizations. The presence of findings such as brain edema in healthy infants who die very soon after receiving hepatitis B vaccine is profoundly disturbing, especially in view of the frequency of neurologicsymptoms in the VAERS. Does SIDS occur on the day after hepatitis Bvaccine with a greater-than-expected frequency? Does it occur at a younger-than-expected age? Are the autopsy findings different in babies who just received the vaccine? The fact that vaccine just happens to be given during the time period that babies are most likely to die of SIDS complicates the analysis. Also, there are a number of other confounding variables (sleep position, socioeconomic status, and possibly smoking behavior).

The data in VAERS are probably too incomplete to answer the questions. A very detailed statistical analysis and an aggressive attempt to obtain more complete information are urgently needed. Glib reassurance, based on the secular trends shown to this Committee, is dangerous.

CONCLUSIONS

Public policy regarding vaccines is fundamentally flawed. It is permeated by conflicts of interest. It is based on poor scientific methodology (including studies that are too small, too short, and too limited in populations represented), which is, moreover, insulated from independent criticism. The evidence is far too poor to warrant overriding the independent judgments of patients, parents, and attending physicians, even if this were ethically or legally acceptable.

 

 

AAPS opposes federal mandates for vaccines, on principle, on the grounds that they are:

1.An unconstitutional expansion of the power of the federal government.

2.An unconstitutional delegation of power to a public-private partnership.

3.An unconstitutional and destructive intrusion into the patient-physician and parent-child relationships.

4.A violation of the Nuremberg Code in that they force individuals to have medical treatment against their will, or to participate in the functional equivalent of a vast experiment without fully informed consent.

5.A violation of rights to free speech and to the practice of one's religion (which may require one to keep oaths).

AAPS would specifically oppose the campaign for universal immunization against hepatitis B, even if the above did not apply, because the safety of the vaccine is in question.


S.A.G. ~ Kathy ~ Sanguine-choleric. Have fun...or else.

Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi, quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.
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#34
More about the ramifications of bad social policy:
 
Quote:  
[Image: aaps.gif]
[Image: red_line.gif]
1601 N. Tucson Blvd. Suite 9
Tucson, AZ 85716-3450
Phone: (800) 635-1196
Hotline: (800) 419-4777
Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc.
A Voice for Private Physicians Since 1943
Omnia pro aegroto
STATEMENT of the ASSOCIATION OF AMERICAN PHYSICIANS AND SURGEONS on VACCINES: PUBLIC SAFETY AND PERSONAL CHOICE before the COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM AND OVERSIGHT
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES submitted by JANE M. ORIENT, M.D.
Executive Director
(800) 635-1196
(520) 326-3529 fax
www.aapsonline.org Aug. 3, 1999
The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS), founded in 1943 to protect the sanctity of the patient-physician relationship, is dedicated to the Oath of Hippocrates and represents physicians in all specialties nationwide. Dr. Jane M. Orient, Executive Director of AAPS, is an internist in practice in Tucson, AZ, author of numerous articles and studies, and editor of The Art and Science of Bedside Diagnosis. Introduction The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) recognizes that vaccines, in the past, have prevented many serious illnesses. But it is simply a fact that every insurance policy has a premium. Every medical intervention carries both risks and potential benefits. The risk:benefit calculation is different for each individual patient, and can only be made by the patient (or the patient's guardian) in consultation with the attending physician. It is the right of every patient to refuse a medical intervention, even if recommended by the attending physician, and it is the duty of the physician to advise according to his or her own best judgment. Informed consent is a prerequisite for ethical medical treatment (or for research), as is internationally recognized in the Nuremberg Code. In many venues, these principles are being violated, particularly for children and infants. "Recommendations" by the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices are often transformed into mandates by state health departments, with or without the specific agreement by the legislature, and in turn, by school districts that require this medical treatment as a condition of attendance. If children do not receive all the mandated vaccines, because of their beliefs or individual medical circumstances, they may be deprived of their liberty to associate with others or of their supposed "right" to a public education. Parents may give "consent" to the vaccine under duress, such as the threat of having their children taken from them. There is also increasing concern about the safety and efficacy of the vaccines so mandated. According to data for 1996, serious adverse events after the hepatitis B vaccine -- including 48 deaths -- are reported three times as frequently as cases of hepatitis B in children under the age of 14. After reviewing the evidence independently, we suspect that adverse reactions to many vaccines are vastly underreported, as formal long-term studies of vaccine safety have not been completed. We are convinced that there is indeed genuine cause for concern, and have enclosed the letter outlining our questions to Dr. Harold Margolis of the CDC, one of the principal advocates of mandatory universal immunization against hepatitis B. The rotavirus vaccine is another case in point. One day it was considered a "must," and the main issue for discussion was how to force HMOs to pay for it. Then, on July 16, CDC spokesman Barbara Reynolds told The New York Times that "no one should now be giving this vaccine to anyone." Despite the occurrence of intussuception in clinical trials, at a rate about 30 times that previously reported by the CDC, physicians were not warned to watch for this complication, which can be fatal in the absence of prompt treatment. AAPS has called for an immediate moratorium on mandatory hepatitis B vaccines for schoolchildren. While Health and Human Services recently announced it would no longer recommend the vaccine for newborns, we are asking Secretary Shalala to further ask state health departments to place an immediate moratorium on all mandatory vaccines, particularly hepatitis B, pending further research about their effectiveness and dangerous adverse effects. The following outlines our concerns about federal vaccine policy:
  • The source of mandates
  • The erosion of medical ethics
  • Reversal of public health policy
  • Lack of informed consent
  • Vaccine risk and adverse effects
  • Risks versus benefits
The Source of Mandates By means of vaccine policy (1), the federal government is effectively making critical medical decisions for an entire generation of American children. The mechanism is a public-private partnership. "Recommendations" issue from the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, a small group whose members have incestuous ties (2) with agencies that stand to gain power, or manufacturers that stand to gain enormous profits, from the policy that is made. Even if such members recuse themselves from specific votes, they are permitted to participate in discussions and thus influence the decision. ACIP recommendations frequently become mandatory through actions of state legislatures, or through state health departments to which legislatures have delegated such authority. State policy is generally enforced by school districts, which set requirements for school attendance. Some children, as reported by ABC's 20/20, are being home schooled because they have not received all the required vaccines. Mandatory Vaccine Policy Results in An Inversion of Medical Ethics Mandates have a profound effect on medical practice. Once a vaccine is mandated for children, the manufacturer and the physician administering the vaccine are substantially relieved of liability for adverse effects (3). The relationship of patient and physician is shattered: in administering the vaccine, the physician is serving as the agent of the state. To the extent that the physician simply complies, without making an independent evaluation of the appropriateness of the vaccine for each patient, he is abdicating his responsibility under the Oath of Hippocrates to "prescribe regimen for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone." Instead, he is applying the new population-based ethic in which the interests of the individual patient may be sacrificed to the "needs of society.” If a physician advises against a mandated vaccine, he faces increased legal liability if the patient is infected with the disease. In addition, he may risk his very livelihood if he is dependent upon income from "health plans" that use vaccine compliance as a measure of "quality." It is perhaps not surprising, although still reprehensible, that physicians sometimes behave in a very callous manner toward parents who question the need for certain vaccines. I have even heard reports of physicians threatening to call Child Protective Services to remove the child from parental custody if a parent refused a vaccine even after the child had screamed inconsolably for hours after each of the first two doses. Reversal of Public Health Policy The federal policy of mandating vaccines marks a monumental change in the concept of public health. Traditionally, public health authorities restricted the liberties of individuals only in case of a clear and present danger to public health. For example, individuals infected with a transmissible disease were quarantined. Today, a child may be deprived of his liberty to associate with others, or even of his supposed right to a public education, simply because of being unimmunized. Yet, if a child is uninfected, his unprotected status is not a threat to anyone else. On the other hand, immunization of a child who is already infected (or who becomes infected in spite of the vaccine) is of no protective value to anyone. This represents a reversal of the earlier policy of preventing exposure to infectious agents. In fact, it takes exposure as to contaminated needles or promiscuity as a given, while begging the question of whether protection against hepatitis B has any overall effect on morbidity or mortality in a population that also exposes itself to worse hazards. With hepatitis B vaccine, the case for mandatory immunization with few exemptions is far less persuasive than with smallpox or polio vaccines, which protected against highly lethal or disabling, easily transmissible diseases. Most physicians probably recommended immunizing most patients against these diseases, while defending their authority to give contrary advice (4). In contrast, an informed and conscientious physician might frequently advise against hepatitis B vaccine, especially in newborns, unless a baby is at unusual risk because of an infected mother or household contact or membership in a population in which disease is common. Lack of Informed Consent AAPS awaits the release of full information concerning the licensure of hepatitis B vaccine and the mandate for newborn immunizations, as requested under the Freedom of Information Act by the National Vaccine Information Center. It is imperative that independent scientists have the opportunity to review the raw data. In the meantime, physicians are still morally obligated to seek informed consent and to provide full and honest disclosure of the risks and uncertainties of the vaccine, in comparison with the risks of the disease. Information given to parents about this vaccine often does not meet the requirement for full disclosure. For example, it may state that "getting the disease is far more likely to cause serious illness than getting the vaccine" (5). This may be literally true, but it is seriously misleading if the risk of getting the disease is nearly zero (as is true for most American newborns). It may also be legalistically true that "no serious reactions have been known to occur due to the hepatitis B recombinant vaccine" (6). However, relevant studies have not been done to investigate whether the temporal association of vaccine with serious side effects is purely coincidental or not. Vaccine Risks and Adverse Effects The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), established by the CDC and the FDA, contains about 25,000 reports of adverse reactions associated with hepatitis B vaccine, or to a vaccine cocktail that included hepatitis B. (A copy of this data base is available on request from snavely@primenet.com. Compressed, the file is about 8 megabytes and may take half an hour to download.) About one-third of the reactions were serious enough to result in an emergency room visit or hospitalization, and there were 440 deaths, including about 180 attributed to Sudden Infant Death Syndrome or SIDS. More than 20 million persons are said to have received the vaccine in the United States (7). Thus, there are about 4 serious reported reactions for every 10,000 persons receiving the vaccine. If only one-tenth of the reactions are reported to VAERS, as is often assumed, there are about 4 serious adverse events for every 1,000 persons receiving vaccine. This is not an unreasonable estimate of the degree of underreporting with a passive reporting system (also see below). Moreover, Congress heard testimony concerning medical students who were told not to report suspected adverse events (8). Dr. Harold Margolis, a CDC hepatitis expert, told Congress that the incidence of SIDS has decreased at the same time that infant immunization rates have increased (9). In other contexts, the Back to Sleep campaign is credited with a dramatic fall in SIDS, but the presence of findings such as brain edema in healthy infants who die very soon after receiving hepatitis B vaccine is worrisome. It is possible that the decrease might have been greater without hepatitis B immunizations. Data in VAERS are too limited to answer such questions as this: Does SIDS occur on the day after hepatitis B vaccine with a greater-than-expected frequency? Does it occur at a younger- than-expected age? Are the autopsy findings different in babies who just received the vaccine (in other words, was SIDS truly the cause of death)? The CDC admits that the results of ongoing studies on a potential association of hepatitis B vaccine and demyelinating diseases such as multiple sclerosis are not yet available. Post- marketing surveillance in the first three years after licensure showed that Guillain Barré syndrome was reported significantly more often than expected, with a relative risk between 1.3 and 2.8. Of possibly greater interest is the fact that the observed number of convulsions was only 6 to 20 percent of the expected number, suggesting underreporting by a factor of 5 to 17. If optic neuritis and transverse myelitis were underreported by this amount, complete ascertainment probably would have demonstrated a significant increase in the vaccinated population (10). The question of an association between apparent increases in behavioral disorders (such as autism and attention deficit/ hyperactivity disorder) and the increasing number of childhood vaccines has been raised, primarily by parents, but I am not aware of appropriate studies addressing the issue. Asthma and insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus, causes of lifelong morbidity and frequent premature death, have increased substantially, with childhood asthma nearly doubling (11), since the introduction of many new, mandatory vaccines. There is no explanation for this increase. The temporal association, although not probative, is suggestive and demands intense investigation. Instead of following up on earlier, foreign studies suggesting a greater-than- chance association, the CDC, through vaccine mandates, is obliterating the control group (unvaccinated children). Dr. Barthelow Classen testified concerning his studies, which suggest that hepatitis B and other vaccines could increase the incidence of diabetes mellitus (12, 13). Of note, VAERS contains more than 4,000 reports of abdominal symptoms that could have been due to pancreatitis, which was probably not specifically sought and thus missed if present. Risk vs. Benefit For each individual, the risk of a serious adverse vaccine reaction (not known but possibly as high as 4 per 1,000) must be weighed against the risk of disease. (Note that a risk as low as 1 per 1,000,000 may be cause for regulatory action in the case of involuntary risks, and 1 in 10,000 for voluntary risks.) In the United States, seroprevalence for hepatitis B surface antigen, a sign of a chronic carrier state, is between 0.1 and 0.5 percent (1 to 5 per 1,000) in normal populations, compared with up to 20 percent in the Far East and some tropical countries, and 30 percent in needle-using drug addicts or persons with Down's syndrome, leukemia, or chronic renal disease requiring dialysis, among others (14). Thus, for a member of the "normal" population, the risk of serious adverse reaction to the vaccine is probably of the same order of magnitude as the lifetime risk of becoming a chronic carrier for hepatitis B. Although the carrier state may disqualify the individual from certain occupations, only a small percentage of carriers develop chronic active hepatitis, cirrhosis, or liver cancer. Overall, the annual incidence of hepatitis B in the U.S. is currently about 4 per 100,000 (15). The risk for most young children is far less. In 1996, the number of deaths from viral hepatitis (of all types) reported in children under the age of 14 was 11, and in children under the age of 1 year was 1 (16). The number of reported cases of hepatitis B in children under age 14 was 85 in 1993 (17) and 279 in 1996, according to CDC figures, or between 2 and 6 per million. There may be a genetic predisposition to adverse effects. Although much of the vaccine testing was done in Alaskan natives and Asians, adverse events in the United States have been predominantly among Caucasians (8). Nearly 80 percent of adverse events associated with hepatitis B vaccine alone involve women, who are more susceptible to autoimmune reactions. This female predominance deserves serious study, not off-hand dismissal ("nurses tend to overreport," said a CDC official) (18). Universal immunization could lead to disproportionate injury to susceptible populations, who might also be the least affected by the disease one is trying to prevent. Conclusions Public policy regarding vaccines is fundamentally flawed. It is permeated by conflicts of interest. It is based on poor scientific methodology (including studies that are too small, too short, and too limited in populations represented), which is, moreover, insulated from independent criticism. The evidence is far too poor to warrant overriding the independent judgments of patients, parents, and attending physicians, even if this were ethically or legally acceptable. Indeed, evidence is accumulating that serious adverse reactions are being ignored. Although this statement has focused on hepatitis B vaccine, similar questions should be raised about others as well. REFERENCES (1) Schlafly, R. Official vaccine policy flawed. Medical Sentinel 4:106-108, 1999. (2) See, for example, the verbatim transcripts of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) Conference convening at 8:45 a.m. on Wednesday, February 17, 1999, at the Atlanta Marriott North Central, Atlanta, GA. (3) Background information on VICP [Vaccine Injury Compensation Program]. Health Resources and Services Administration, Department of Health and Human Services, Bureau of Health Professions. See http://www.hrsa.dhhs.gov/bhpr/vicp/abdvic.htm. (4) Elsten AW. Mass immunization. The Freeman 10(8):30-34, 1960, reprinted as AAPS pamphlet no. 1065, Feb., 1999. (5) Hepatitis B vaccine and hepatitis B immune globulin: what you need to know before you or your child gets the vaccine. CDC, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Hep B-5/1/96. (6) Information after immunizations. Arizona Department of Health Services. (7) CDC. Hepatitis B vaccine frequently asked questions.See http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/hepatitis/b/faqbvax.htm. (8) Dunbar B. Hearing before the Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy and Hyman Resources of the House Government Reform Committee, May 8, 1999, transcript by Federal News Service. (9) Margolis H. Hearing before the Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy and Human Resources of the House Government Reform Committee, May 18, 1999, posted at http://www.house.gov/reform/cj/hearings/.../index.htm. (10) Shaw FE, Graham DJ, Guess HA, et al. Postmarketing surveillance for neurologic adverse events reported after hepatitis B vaccination: experience of the first three years. Am J Epidemiol 127:337-352, 1988. (11) Asthma Prevention Program of the National Center for Environmental Health, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention At-a-Glance 1999. Href= "http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/programs/asthma/ataglance/asthmaag2.htm"> http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/programs/asthma/...hmaag2.htm. (12) Classen JB. Hearing before the Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy and Human Resources of the House Government Reform Committee, May 18, 1999, transcript by Federal News Service. (13) Classen JB, Classen JC. Hemophilus vaccine and increased IDDM, causal relationship likely. eBMJ 318(7192):1169-1172, May 7, 1999, http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/318/7192/1169. (14) Dienstag JL, Isselbacher KJ. Acute viral hepatitis. Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine ed. 13, New York: McGraw-Hill, 1994, pp. 1458-1478. (15) CDC. Fastats A-Z, updated 5/14/99. See http://www.cdc.gov/nchswww/fastats/hepatitis.htm. (16) Table 10, National Vital Statistics Report 1998;47(9):51. (17) Hepatitis Surveillance, Viral Hepatitis Surveillance Program 1993, report # 56, CDC, April, 1996. (18) Belkin, M: Hearing before the Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy and Human Resources of the House Government Reform Committee, May 18, 1999, transcript by Federal News Service.
 
 
S.A.G. ~ Kathy ~ Sanguine-choleric. Have fun...or else.

Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi, quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.
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#35
Quote:
What I was referring to was someone I knew personally. I would send the question out to all who are reading this thread,do you personally know someone who have had a child permanently maimed or killed by an immunization? I don't and nor do any of my friends. (I asked). Nor has my pediatrician of 12 years had in her practice a child maimed by an immunization. My point is not that it does not happen, obviously there are risks involved, but they are a rare occurrence.

 
Don't know if this is applicable here, but I had a kitten (she was 7 mos old) die from a bad reaction to a vaccine.  At first I thought she just had a cold or something, sniffles, and laying around alot.  But then after a couple days she started walking funny, and wouldn't leave the bed, peed all over my bed as she just lay there.  She also stopped eating.  I took her to the vet (this was on day 4 after the vaccine) and he determined that she was blind and having various neurological symptoms.  He suggested I take her back to the vet that gave her the vaccine.  She started seizing that night and died the next afternoon(day 5 after vaccine) after a series of violent seizures before I could take her to her appointment.  This was a formerly very healthy kitty that had no contact with other animals.  Her symptoms could only be attributed to a vaccine reaction.  She had gotten the full recommended series (rabies, parvo, Feleuk, Distemper, etc.) 
 
I know that this doesn't even come close to comparison to what it would be like to go through this with a child.  And I know that vets are not as careful with pets health (giving many vaccines at once etc.) as human doctors are with regard to vaccines.  But it was this episode that made me look into the dangers of vaccines, and to have a much more guarded attitude about vaccines.  I don't have children of my own so it's not really an issue for me. 
 
But if I did have children, I might consider avoiding vaccination.  Or at least avoid many of the unnecessary ones, and putting them off to as late in life as possible.  Like, not until they're at least 4 or 5.  And I would arm myself with a doctor that specializes in chelation before getting any vaccines for my kids.  But tell you the truth, if I had my own sweet babies in my arms, I wouldn't doubt if I became fearful for their lives and just couldn't bring myself to let them have vaccines, remembering how my poor little kitty violently died.
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#36
quoprimum Wrote:Thought this was pertinent to this discussion.
Unprotected People #35
The Importance of Vaccination
Physician remembers the tragedies of vaccine-preventable disease
The following letter to the editor appeared in the Spring/Summer 2000 issue of NEEDLE TIPS.
I am one of the increasingly rare old-timers who lived during the pre-vaccination era. I am the second to the last of thirteen siblings, five of whom died of vaccine-preventable diseases in infancy. Born to poor immigrant parents, I remember well my mother's account of the causes of their deaths—three from "la tussa forte" ("tussa" derives from the same stem from which we get pertussis) and two from "rosolia" (measles). Even after many years had passed, she spoke of these "morte d'angeli" (death of her angels) with a great deal of emotion. Imagine losing not one, two, three, or four, but five babies! It was common in the pre-vaccine era. Like our family, many families lost several children to these diseases.
We forget. Time blurs our memories of these common tragedies of yesteryear.
I remember well, during the winter and spring of each year, hearing the whoop of pertussis in movie theaters, school assemblies, and assorted gatherings.
Today, few have ever heard this, and those who have, forget.
 
Quote: [Image: sobstory.gif]The fact is that pertussis is now treatable with erythromycin. It is not the deadly disease it once was.
 
 
I remember the summer outbreaks of polio, the crippled children who could no longer walk or walked with limb-distorted limps. As a third- and fourth-year medical student, I remember answering the appeals of hospital administrators who could not find the nursing staff for special duty tending to the needs of polio patients in "iron lungs." We forget.
 
Quote:[Image: sobstory.gif] I read about this in depth. The virus is completely harmless in breastfed infants. The disease is a modern one, fed by industrialization and manufactured infant formula. The vaccine is the most efficacious agent of spreading the disease, as has been shown throughout the short history of the disease.
 
 
I remember the awful cases of measles my own children experienced. I remember the children with smallpox during the years my family lived in Pakistan. I remember those who lost their sight from lesions in their eyes. I remember those who died. We forget.
 
Quote: [Image: sobstory.gif]  I remember having the measles and it was a blast. A little itchy, but I got to stay home from school and sit in a dark room. It was great.
 
The bigger issue in this trip down memory lane lies in the reference to Pakistan. Statistics thrown out by the NIH and CDC are often skewed by including the numbers in third world countries. The U.S. is not a third world country and our kids are getting vaccines for diseases that simply are not deadly here.
In memory of all of them, I commend IAC and others who share "Unprotected People" stories to remind those who have been spared these tragedies that most of these illnesses are still a threat. And, they can be prevented. Easily.
We forget.
Thank you for promoting vaccines in such a unique way—by telling the stories of the vaccine-preventable disease tragedies. So people won't forget.
 
Quote: [Image: sobstory.gif]I am going to have to have a look at their website. Promoting hysteria is hardly good medicine.
E.J. (Gene) Gangarosa, MD, MS
Professor Emeritus
Department of International Health
Emory University

Item #T2014-5 (10/4/00)

Unprotected People #38
The Importance of Vaccination
Some parents fall for vaccination scare stories, with deadly results
The following article was written by Betty Bumpers and Rosalynn Carter, co-founders of Every Child by Two, an organization promoting early vaccination of children. As mothers and co-founders of the vaccine advocacy organization Every Child By Two, we are deeply concerned about a dangerous Internet and media campaign being waged to undermine the use of vaccines.
A growing number of American families are getting bad—sometimes even fatal—medical advice from the Internet.
 
Quote:A larger number of families are getting bad advice at "health" clinics where informed consent is regarded an annoyance.
For Suzanne and Leonard Walther of Murfreesboro, Tenn., a simple and well-intentioned Internet search on this important health issue on July 19 turned into their worst nightmare.
The Walthers were looking for information on the safety of vaccines for their new baby, Mary Catherine. What they found were sensational sites dedicated to alarming parents.
These sites, short on science and long on inflammatory rhetoric, claim vaccines are linked to just about anything affecting children—allergies, autism, juvenile diabetes and attention deficit disorder. Claims are even made that vaccines are the cause of shaken baby syndrome, the AIDS epidemic and sudden infant death syndrome.
 
Quote:The website that posted this should update. The research is clear, these chronic diseases are associated with vaccines after all. The clearest evidence comes on the heels of the removal of thimerosal from vaccines and the sudden drop in cases of autism. I can't wait to hear the spin on that one.
Even though many of the Web sites are listing misinformation about vaccines without scientific basis, parents concerned about their children are understandably susceptible to such claims.
The scare tactics worked with the Walthers, and they decided not to immunize their daughter. It was a choice they lived to regret.
Days before Mary Catherine's first birthday, she was stricken with a form of meningitis that has been nearly eliminated in this country and that could have been prevented by a simple vaccination.
Before the vaccine became available in the late 1980s, one in every 20 infected children died from complications related to this disease, and 15 percent to 20 percent of the survivors suffered permanent brain damage.
 
Quote:That must be the hib vaccine. It has been linked to causing the disease it was intended to prevent. I remember when I refused it for my kids at the health department. The nurse exclaimed, "But, that is the safest one we have!" Ummm, then the rest are clearly unsafe. [Image: dunce.gif]
 
Mary Catherine was lucky. She survived, but her ordeal certainly prompted her parents to question health information they find on the Internet.
 
Quote:Of course the parents should question health information they find on the internet. [Image: dunce.gif] 
They should find a physician that they can trust. Not an easy task, to be sure.
 
And the child survived. Deo gratias.
Must have been a miracle considering the deadly nature of childhood illness. [Image: rolleyes.gif]
 
 
Tom and Patsy Morris of Columbus, Ga., had a similar experience. In their case, it was a news story that drove their decision not to complete their son's series of the pertussis vaccination in the early 1990s.
 
Quote:The reason it was/is big news is becase the fact is that the DTP shot was extremely dangerous and adverse reactions were very high. It has since been reformulated with the manufacturer kicking and screaming all the way.
 
A year later, Nickolas was close to death with whooping cough. He, too, survived, but the ordeal weighs heavily on his parents, who thought they were making an informed decision based on sound scientific information.
 
Quote:Another miracle, I'm sure.
 
 
These stories are cautionary tales of a dangerous trend: junk science fueling the fears of well-meaning parents.
 
Quote: These "cautionary tales" are much more rare than adverse reactions to vaccines.
 
While the Internet has become an excellent resource for health information, it also grants access to false, misleading and distorted information that can confuse even the most well-educated consumer.
 
Quote:I would have to agree with this statement. After all, this article came from the internet.
 
There are few areas where the impact of a health scare can be as devastating as with vaccines.
Quote:So true. Mass hysteria is just a phone call from the CDC away.

 
It's easy to be afraid of everyday childhood ailments that almost everyone has seen or heard about.
 
Quote:It's easier and less stressful to have all the facts beforehand. Learn how to care for a sick child, for pity's sake.
 
But it's difficult to fear deadly diseases such as "wild" type polio and smallpox that most new parents in our country, and many young pediatricians, have never seen.
 
Quote:Again, it is better to have all the facts rather than be lulled into a false sense of security. The outbreaks of diseases that are supposedly vaccine-preventable are occuring in 100% vaccinated populations.

 
Americans take for granted that these diseases have been eradicated, never to return. Ironically, the global public health and philanthropic communities are spending enormous amounts of money and
effort to ensure that underdeveloped countries— where children and adults regularly die from diseases we no longer fear—have access to the vaccines some are urging us to shun.

 
Quote:Interesting point. One of the main reasons that American children are the first to receive vaccines for diseases that are lethal in third world countries is money. Someone has to pay for the vaccines, and it isn't going to be the third world recipient.

 
All it takes is well-organized media and Internet scare campaigns to convince some parents not to vaccinate their children.
 
Quote:No, all it takes is greed and lies. Look at the rotavirus vaccine. Rotavirus is characterized by chronic diarrhea, rarely heard of in the U.S., but this is the first country to vaccinate against it. Many people haven't even heard of the vaccine because it was linked to so many deaths from intusseception (the bowel telescopes in on itself.)
 
Unfortunately, electing not to vaccinate your child can have long-term consequences that go beyond just your child's illness. Unvaccinated children can collectively rejuvenate long-dormant diseases and trigger lethal epidemics.
 
Quote:Or not. Vaccinated kids are doing quite well at it, though.
 
The recent measles outbreak in Ireland provides a vivid example of this phenomenon. An isolated study conducted by a Scottish researcher, Andrew Wakefield, and reported in 1998, claimed that the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine (MMR) could be linked to autism.
The study has been refuted by further research and has been criticized as being very limited because it used too few cases to make any scientifically valid generalizations about the causes of autism. Only 12 children were included in the study.
In addition, there were inadequate groups of control children, and the study did not identify the time period during which the cases were identified.
An expert committee from the U.K. Medical Research Council reviewed this study shortly after its release and concluded that there was no evidence to link the MMR vaccine with autism.
 
Quote:Wakefield's research has been proven correct.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration confirm that the vast body of scientific evidence shows no link between autism and vaccines.
 
Quote:They have had to back off from that stance in light of the most recent evidence.
Unfortunately, as a result of the momentary loss of confidence in the MMR vaccine, vaccination levels declined, and Dublin experienced a sudden outbreak of measles in epidemic proportions. As of Sept. 30, Ireland had reported 1,523 cases of measles, including several deaths, as compared to 148 cases for the whole of 1999.
In the United States, nearly everyone had measles before immunization was available. Between 1953 and 1963, 3 million to 4 million measles cases and an average of 450 measles-associated deaths were reported each year. In 1999, there were only 86 cases of measles in the United States, and none resulted in death.
Make no mistake: The consequences of ignoring safe and effective immunizations are real and can be lethal. The effort to undermine vaccines seeks to capitalize on a distorted perception of risk.
 
Quote:I cannot comment on these statistics because I haven't got the time to check them out. I do not accept them at face value though.
 
Vaccines on rare occasions do cause side effects. But in the final analysis, vaccines represent infinitely far less risk than the diseases they prevent.
 
Quote:This is hotly debated within the medical community, so the "final analysis" is anything but final.
 
As Suzanne Walther said, "I don't want my child to be the one in 3 million" who has a bad reaction to a vaccine. "But I also don't want mine to be the one in 10 that dies if they get the disease. I'd rather take my chances with the one in 3 million than the one in 10."
 
Quote:And I would like to see vaccines be made safe and effective. Currently, they are neither.
 
Her words are sound advice for all parents. Please make sure your children follow the vaccination schedule prescribed by public-health officials. They will live far healthier lives because of it.
 
Quote:Unless, of course, it kills them. 
Rosalynn Carter, former first lady, and Betty Bumpers, former first lady of Arkansas, are co-founders of Every Child By Two (ECBT), an organization promoting early vaccination of children, headquartered at 666 11th Street N.W., Suite 202, Washington, DC, 20001. Visit ECBT's website at: http://www.ecbt.org
S.A.G. ~ Kathy ~ Sanguine-choleric. Have fun...or else.

Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi, quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.
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#37
 
Ont. rubella outbreak described as 'God's will'

Updated Sat. May. 7 2005 5:16 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff
The results of a rubella outbreak in southwestern Ontario are "God's will," a community leader said Friday, while health officials stressed the need for vaccinations.
There are now 90 cases of rubella, also known as German measles, in the town of Norwich in southwestern Ontario.
One of the cases involves a pregnant woman.
The outbreak started at the town's Rehoboth Christian School. Many students there belong to a religious denomination that doesn't endorse or objects to vaccinations.
About 60 per cent of the elementary and high school pupils in the town have not been vaccinated. And about 340 students without protection have been excluded from the school until the outbreak is over.
Martien Vanderspek, the school's principal, told CTV News people are prepared to accept the consequences of not getting vaccinated.
Rubella is a highly contagious virus that can cause such symptoms as fever, headaches and joint pain in children.
The disease can hit adults even harder, and poses the greatest health risk to pregnant women.
Miscarriage is common, while the threat of congenital rubella syndrome hangs over women infected early in the fetus' development.
Babies born with the condition can be deaf or blind, or suffer from cognitive disabilities or damaged hearts.
"Whatever happens, they have a place in our community if it God's will a handicapped child is born, Vanderspek said.
"I'm sure our community will do its best to make it feel at home and provide the best environment for it."
Also on Friday the local county's medical officer of health, Dr. Doug Sider, warned the number of infected could go up.
"Yes, we expect to see further waves of infection," he told CTV's Kitchener, Ont., CKCO.
Earlier in the day, Ontario's Health Minister George Smitherman spoke to Canada AM about the need for vaccination in the face of the outbreak.
"It is my understanding that they take the view it is a matter of personal choice," Smitherman said.
"It is a bit unfortunate. Something that's entirely preventable and otherwise could have been entirely eliminated from communities, isn't," he said, "because some people choose not to take advantage of vaccinations."
Sider told CTV Newsnet his office is working hard to understand the belief systems that may have contributed to the outbreak.
He said his office is "looking at any and all ways to dialogue with the community to try to get them to understand the extraordinary circumstance that we're in with the outbreak."
He said getting vaccinated is likely the key.
"If we can get vaccination levels up, it's probably the most durable way to bring the outbreak under control and prevent future outbreaks."
Sider also said he recognized "the need to be respectful of and sensitive to" issues of religious belief.
 
_________________________________________________________________
 
I have no idea if the baby was born healthy or not, haven't heard anything about it since.  If I was the mother of one of these children I'd feel terrible, if not responsible for that pregnant woman.   
 
You should know that corticosteroids can be just as dangerous as these vaccinations.  I personally would NOT allow my child to have shots of that stuff, there are definitely safer alternatives.

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#38
This does not offer any reasons why a rubella epidemic of similar proportions could not happen in a fully vaccinated population, as has indeed happened. The only thing preventing such an outbreak would be if the vaccination was indeed efficacious, and there is compelling evidence that it is not.
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#39
curious_catholic Wrote:   
You should know that corticosteroids can be just as dangerous as these vaccinations.  I personally would NOT allow my child to have shots of that stuff, there are definitely safer alternatives.

I agree. My daughter is 18 and I was not with her. If I had been, I would have pressed for information. She received very little benefit from the shot. I have had other kids who had to get a shot for poision ivy when it spread along their faces into the eyes. They improved immediately.
 
Can you provide some resources that outline some of the safer alternatives? I would be most grateful.
S.A.G. ~ Kathy ~ Sanguine-choleric. Have fun...or else.

Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi, quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.
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#40
DominusTecum Wrote:This does not offer any reasons why a rubella epidemic of similar proportions could not happen in a fully vaccinated population, as has indeed happened. The only thing preventing such an outbreak would be if the vaccination was indeed efficacious, and there is compelling evidence that it is not.

Right. The disease had to come from somewhere. It could have been a vaccinated kid- it is a live virus vaccine. There are no sure bets on either side.
 
One of the things that bothers me greatly is the waning of natural immunity in the population. The powers that be forget that there could be horrific backlash when a disease cycle becomes prevalent again. The natives of America succumbed to European diseases as explorers who recovered wandered this way.
 
I had the measles, mumps, and rubella as a child and I breastfed my kids, so they had a natural, passive immunity for a time and I have permanent immunity. At least, previous generations enjoyed permanent immunity from these diseases once they recovered. They were periodically exposed to the virus, keeping their immune system tuned up, exercising the B cell and T cell responses of specific immunity. But like the American natives, my grandkids don't have that benefit and each succeeding generation will have less. They will be a bunch of sitting ducks poked full of holes with ever increasing numbers of vaccines that don't "take," wear off, or spread the disease they are supposed to prevent.
 
Btw, if anyone suspects that they might have been exposed to rubella or knows someone who has, the best treatment is vitamin A, as far as I recall. I read about it over 20 years ago, way before the Internet. Vitamin A is depleted in measle type diseases and it is a tricky customer. Think Accutane and Retin-A and the warning labels. Synthetic vitamin A is very toxic in even moderate quantities. Natural vitamin A can be toxic, too, but it is much safer.
S.A.G. ~ Kathy ~ Sanguine-choleric. Have fun...or else.

Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi, quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.
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