Did mary have a vaginal Birth.
#58
(05-01-2013, 11:01 PM)GloriaPatri Wrote: Jon, I have in no way contradicted what the Church believes. I agree that the Virgin Mary was not physically harmed in birthing Christ. Whether that meant that he came as "light through glass" or not is not a matter settled by the Church in a definitive manner.

As I said earlier, whether light through glass of her belly or birth canal is irrelevant, as the lack of harm done implies no destruction of the sign of purity, or virginity, the hymen, in conjunction with the Fathers and Church doctrine on before, during and after. The intact hymen, then, is the definitive notion, despite your disagreeing with the understanding of the ancients. A normal birth, without pain, is not a normal birth. A normal birth, without tearing the hymen, is not a normal birth.

If you disagree with the definition of the Fathers, how are you not disagreeing with the definition of the Church when before, during and after maintaining of the sign of virginity, without pain, necessitates a birth which is not definable as natural/normal? The virginal aspect, the miraculousness, is the intact hymen, and the nature of the birth which is miraculous, in addition to lack of sexual experience. The Fathers are not defining virginity as merely sexual relations, but its sign of assured lacking: intact hymen from before, during and after; no opening of the womb at all. A "natural birth" disallows harm, or destruction of that sign and the womb.

He could have been born out of her fingertip for all we know, but the point is that the hymen is the sign of virginity and the womb was unopened: lacking natural/normal birth.

There simply is no way to argue for natural/normal birth and not deviate from the Church teaching.

See Fr. Hardon, S.J. article: http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/...gy_025.htm
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Messages In This Thread
Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by jim111 - 04-29-2013, 07:01 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by moneil - 04-29-2013, 08:48 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by DrBombay - 04-29-2013, 09:17 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Poche - 04-30-2013, 04:29 AM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by SCG - 04-30-2013, 09:14 AM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Satori - 04-30-2013, 11:50 AM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Tim - 04-30-2013, 12:49 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Doce Me - 04-30-2013, 01:49 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by loggats - 04-30-2013, 03:56 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by loggats - 04-30-2013, 04:12 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Satori - 04-30-2013, 04:53 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Satori - 04-30-2013, 06:27 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Satori - 04-30-2013, 06:27 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by DrBombay - 04-30-2013, 07:17 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Poche - 05-01-2013, 03:41 AM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Felix E - 05-01-2013, 03:51 AM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Joshua - 05-01-2013, 04:32 AM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Tim - 05-01-2013, 08:48 AM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Satori - 05-01-2013, 10:36 AM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by SCG - 05-01-2013, 12:07 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Joshua - 05-01-2013, 04:29 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Warrenton - 05-01-2013, 05:10 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Doce Me - 05-01-2013, 07:02 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Warrenton - 05-01-2013, 07:26 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Satori - 05-01-2013, 08:04 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Tenmaru - 05-01-2013, 11:03 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Satori - 05-01-2013, 11:06 PM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by jonbhorton - 05-02-2013, 12:46 AM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Warrenton - 05-02-2013, 01:01 AM
Re: Did mary have a vaginal Birth. - by Joshua - 05-02-2013, 02:30 AM



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