Orthodoxy, TLM, NO
#51
Quote:Even while attending the TLM at beautiful Saint Paul’s church in South Philadelphia, one could not escape the reality that this Mass was a minority Mass, primarily a footnote to the Novus Ordo.

Just wanted to remark that I attended Saint Paul's in South Philadelphia a couple times, and it is indeed a model for all Christendom to follow. I was really blown away by both the liturgy and the people at the social afterward. I understand where the author was coming from about trad-dom feeling like a sideshow in the larger picture of Catholicism..... but if that's the case, then being Orthodox is like being in a sideshow of curiosities for all Christianity in the west.
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#52
DoktorDespot, you are wrong on 2 counts ...

1) The Orthodox believe in the Assumption, they just call it the Dormition instead.  They emphasize Mary's peaceful death, but they still believe she went straight to heaven after her death.
2) Purgatory - The Orthodox believe in a cleansing and a period after death.  They just don't believe some of the hooey about Purgatory being a terrible firey miserable place.
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#53
(05-14-2013, 05:30 PM)DustinsDad Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 05:11 PM)Parmandur Wrote: The way I see it, the position of the Orthodox is analogous to that of the SSPX (though the SSPX is better off), in terms of being in a complicated relationship with the Church at large.

The Eastern Orthodox do not hold the Catholic Faith. They deny the papacy and a few other items. The SSPX do not deny any articles of the Catholic Faith. Might look the same to a protestant, but us Catholics should know better.

Ehhh, it's mite more complicated than that.  More political.
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#54
(05-14-2013, 06:23 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 05:30 PM)DustinsDad Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 05:11 PM)Parmandur Wrote: The way I see it, the position of the Orthodox is analogous to that of the SSPX (though the SSPX is better off), in terms of being in a complicated relationship with the Church at large.

The Eastern Orthodox do not hold the Catholic Faith. They deny the papacy and a few other items. The SSPX do not deny any articles of the Catholic Faith. Might look the same to a protestant, but us Catholics should know better.

Ehhh, it's mite more complicated than that.  More political.

It's complicated and "political" how the EO got to where they are today, but the bottom line is they reject the infallible dogma of papal supremacy and therefore do not hold the catholic faith. That's just the reality of where they are right now. The faith is and all or nothing thing. Its supernatural in that the Holy Spirit gives in the gift of faith the ability to accept it all. To reject a portion of it is to lose the Supernatural Virtue of Faith. Then it becomes natural and a human thing.

The SSPX on the other hand, do not reject any of the dogmas of the faith (if there is one they deny, let me know!). One can say they are disobedient or whatever, but ya can't say they reject this or that point of infallible Church teaching.

DD
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#55
(05-14-2013, 08:25 PM)DustinsDad Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 06:23 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 05:30 PM)DustinsDad Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 05:11 PM)Parmandur Wrote: The way I see it, the position of the Orthodox is analogous to that of the SSPX (though the SSPX is better off), in terms of being in a complicated relationship with the Church at large.

The Eastern Orthodox do not hold the Catholic Faith. They deny the papacy and a few other items. The SSPX do not deny any articles of the Catholic Faith. Might look the same to a protestant, but us Catholics should know better.

Ehhh, it's mite more complicated than that.  More political.

It's complicated and "political" how the EO got to where they are today, but the bottom line is they reject the infallible dogma of papal supremacy and therefore do not hold the catholic faith. That's just the reality of where they are right now. The faith is and all or nothing thing. Its supernatural in that the Holy Spirit gives in the gift of faith the ability to accept it all. To reject a portion of it is to lose the Supernatural Virtue of Faith. Then it becomes natural and a human thing.

The SSPX on the other hand, do not reject any of the dogmas of the faith (if there is one they deny, let me know!). One can say they are disobedient or whatever, but ya can't say they reject this or that point of infallible Church teaching.

DD

I can't see unequivocally condemning the Orthodox without saying that everyone in the SSPX is damned to Hell; and the basis on which to do either, the living Magisterium of the Church, does neither.  :shrug:
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#56
Arrr!!! No ones becoming a scurvy schismatic, me buckos, curse yer lungs and liver!  I'll hoist ye from the mizzenmast if ye do!
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#57
(05-14-2013, 08:31 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 08:25 PM)DustinsDad Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 06:23 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 05:30 PM)DustinsDad Wrote:
(05-14-2013, 05:11 PM)Parmandur Wrote: The way I see it, the position of the Orthodox is analogous to that of the SSPX (though the SSPX is better off), in terms of being in a complicated relationship with the Church at large.

The Eastern Orthodox do not hold the Catholic Faith. They deny the papacy and a few other items. The SSPX do not deny any articles of the Catholic Faith. Might look the same to a protestant, but us Catholics should know better.

Ehhh, it's mite more complicated than that.  More political.

It's complicated and "political" how the EO got to where they are today, but the bottom line is they reject the infallible dogma of papal supremacy and therefore do not hold the catholic faith. That's just the reality of where they are right now. The faith is and all or nothing thing. Its supernatural in that the Holy Spirit gives in the gift of faith the ability to accept it all. To reject a portion of it is to lose the Supernatural Virtue of Faith. Then it becomes natural and a human thing.

The SSPX on the other hand, do not reject any of the dogmas of the faith (if there is one they deny, let me know!). One can say they are disobedient or whatever, but ya can't say they reject this or that point of infallible Church teaching.

DD

I can't see unequivocally condemning the Orthodox without saying that everyone in the SSPX is damned to Hell; and the basis on which to do either, the living Magisterium of the Church, does neither.   :shrug:

It has infallibly declared that outside the church there is no salvation. Objectively speaking, EO are outside the Church. If one wants to get into the subjective nuances of how an individual EO person MIGHT theoretically be united to the soul of the Mystical Body without being a visible member, that's one thing, but the situation we are describing here is another.
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#58
(05-14-2013, 10:05 PM)DustinsDad Wrote: It has infallibly declared that outside the church there is no salvation. Objectively speaking, EO are outside the Church. If one wants to get into the subjective nuances of how an individual EO person MIGHT theoretically be united to the soul of the Mystical Body without being a visible member, that's one thing, but the situation we are describing here is another.

Sure, and applying the same rubric the way you do here would say that everyone who is in the SSPX or assists with them is damned, as they are not in regular communion with their Ordinary, which is schism.  You seem to be in an awful hurry to be more harsh in your judgements than the Church has been,
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#59
So every individual soul out there who has converted from Orthodoxy to Catholicism, and the people who formed the so-called "uniate" churches -- they did not have bothered?

And the Orthodox are all Catholics, it's just that they don't know it?

And because they are blissfully unaware of their Catholicism, it is Ok for them to divorce, remarry, and contracept?
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#60
(05-14-2013, 01:12 PM)Old Salt Wrote: OK Dickwallop.

And you should consider reversing your sex change operation dickwallop.

Oh, thanks Cockwalloper.

Little boy weak.

Less than a man wallope.

Prune taker

Hi there Dickwallop.

Neither you nor I are Catholic and collwallopers. we will rot in the bowels of hell along with all little schwanson mommy lovers.

Are you raising children ?
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