Smokers
#31
Kramer's actor is racist.  Fact.
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#32
(06-09-2013, 08:49 PM)Deidre Wrote: I'd hate to see what would happen if coffee was ever taxed that heavily, Tim.  afraidsmiley

That will come, after they've banned tobacco, transfats and sugar! LOL
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#33
(06-09-2013, 08:56 PM)jonbhorton Wrote: America was built with a cigarette in the mouth, and has been destroyed since smoking became verboten. Fact.

Amen!
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#34
Have you noticed it's the older ones here that are outraged. I know SCG, Jovann, Me, and I believe Vox was the tail end of the Boomers. We as a whole were not propagandized. We went to school when truth was not propaganda from Progressives.

tim
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#35
(06-10-2013, 10:28 AM)Tim Wrote: Have you noticed it's the older ones here that are outraged. I know SCG, Jovann, Me, and I believe Vox was the tail end of the Boomers. We as a whole were not propagandized. We went to school when truth was not propaganda from Progressives.

tim

Well, I'm in that general age group, and I'm not outraged about anything -- but I do recognize and admit that smoking is an unhealthy habit, mostly for the smoker, but also for people around him/her. I don't think propaganda has anything to do with it. It's pretty obvious that our lungs were designed (or evolved, take your pick) to breathe air, not smoke. Breathing smoke is bad for you -- or as a friend of mine puts it, it just seems like a bad idea to put something in your mouth that's on fire. I have seen direct improvements in my own health since I quit smoking about 9-1/2 years ago, and even more dramatic improvements in my financial health (smoking is expensive!). I'm not on any crusade to make others quit or anything, but let's not try to pretend that it's healthy or harmless -- we all know better.
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#36
I take your point but all things eventually cause our deaths and smoking is hardly the worst. That's all.

tim
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#37
(06-10-2013, 12:07 PM)Tim Wrote: I take your point but all things eventually cause our deaths and smoking is hardly the worst. That's all.

tim

I'm having a hard time thinking of anything much worse than lung cancer. Hanging, drawing, and quartering is humane by comparison -- it's much quicker.

This is not a hypothetical issue for me. My mother died of lung cancer a few years ago. The only thing that made her pain bearable was a constant heavy dose of morphine, to the point that she was basically in a coma for the last month or two. And it was no fun before that either. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, and I fervently hope that something else kills me before it comes to that.
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#38
Used to be a 30-40 a day man, myself. Back when I was a heathen small-c catholic. I  miss smoking, though I'd never ever go back. Unhealthy, socially horrible, consuming and costly habit.
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#39
(06-10-2013, 10:28 AM)Tim Wrote: Have you noticed it's the older ones here that are outraged. I know SCG, Jovann, Me, and I believe Vox was the tail end of the Boomers. We as a whole were not propagandized. We went to school when truth was not propaganda from Progressives.

tim

No, you were subject to marketing propaganda.  You and any smokers from your generation bought into the pro-smoking propaganda distributed not by people who cared whether you lived poorly or died early or whether your finances were shot because of your habit, but by people who wanted you to buy, buy, buy.

Here's the propaganda YOU listened to:

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#40
Two very separate issues here.

Issue one: Is smoking good or bad? Clearly from a health and financial point of view, lots of arguments for "bad." Maybe some people enjoy an occasional pleasurable smoke, often a pipe or cigar or hookah. But regular smoking and addiction to nicotine - pretty bad for you. Out of charity for smokers, this should not be a verboten topic. People who smoke should quit, for their own health!

Issue two: the larger social issue. I don't want to persecute smokers. I think Vox's response here was a bit defense and an overreaction. I do agree with rules that keep smoker's smoke out of my face and my living/working/dining area. I'm all for laws that prevent us from inflicting our crap on each other when it's dangerous or objectively offensive, since we clearly live in a society where people have lost any sense of decency. Laws against smoking in public places, against having sex in public places, against blasting your boombox in public places, I support them.

The financial issue (on a societal scale) is also important. Not sure it's so clear whether smoker's cost employers money through breaks -- but they do through health insurance premiums and payouts -- and employers are acting on this by penalizing employees who smoke (Cleveland Clinic is doing this, for example, and they employ a lot of people).

I don't give extreme sports people a pass, except that they aren't extreme-sportsing in the same building as me. But they don't get a pass because if they get injured, they should have insurance to cover their medical care. And if they have super-high premiums because of their activities, they should pay them.

When someone chooses to smoke, or drink excessively, or eat poorly, or refuses to exercise, or plays extreme sports, and then expects society to pick up the medical cost (not by true charity care but by government-funded entitlement) - then I have a problem!
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