Anglican more Catholic than Francis
Hell? Not mentioned at V2 and hardly been mentioned since.

Likewise those comments about Dr. Jenson being a heretic. Francis would thoroughly disapprove! You certainly didn't learn that kind of "intolerance" from him!

Amazing how double-minded a trad can be.
(06-16-2013, 02:35 AM)John Lane Wrote: Amazing how double-minded a trad can be.

:eyeroll: I know right?

"Even if [the Pope were an incarnate devil], we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom... He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope." --St. Catherine of Siena

To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams. - 1 Sam. 15: 22

(06-15-2013, 06:45 PM)John Lane Wrote: .....and no preaching of the faith.

That right there is what discredits you John. You have presented your thesis and have done that well. But nowadays you seem to be grasping with some sort of desperation.

No preaching of the Faith ? That's denial.
He preaches the faith?  Tell me where and when this happened.  I only hear naturalism.

As for the idea that any of you takes him seriously, you disprove it by calling Jenson a heretic, something that flies in the face of everything Francis stands for.

No, you don't get your faith from Francis, so don't be hypocrites and attack others who point out that the ideas he represents are not Catholic.  You yourselves agree with me, as you prove by your every word.  If you sat at the feet of Francis and learned your ideas from him, you'd be over at CAF or perhaps down getting a blessing from an evangelical pastor. < >

Basta!  For SV's, the Petrine Office closed with the death of Pope Pius XII.  To them there will be no more Popes after him.  (There is even one fella who has come to reveal that the truly last valid Pope was Pio Nono -- Bl. Pius IX.  Nothing but musings of an infirm Catholic mind).

How can there be?  The Apostolic succession has been cut off and the validity of the electors of the papacy has become doubtful, according to them. This seems not only second-guessing the mind of Christ but also a perversion of His words, "... behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world."  To second-guess the mind of Christ is to say, they know that Christ has not said, "So you elected Francis.  For now he is My pope."  Do we think that Christ has not acknowledged the last Conclave?

Dialogue of St. Catherine of Siena with God the Father:
Quote:God the Father:  And to Who did my Son give the Keys of His Blood?
St. Catherine:  To Peter.
God the Father:  Yes, to Peter and his successors until the end of time.

So the Bloodline ends when?
If there has been no Pope since Pope Pius XII or Pope Pius IX as above from Vincentius, then it extends that we are in the Apocalypse, and it is the End. How does this jibe with what is going on and the promises of Our Lady at Fatima ? It can't, and it looks to me, those that believe there have been no Popes, that they have determined this is the time of the Second Coming, and no one knows that. 

We all know that since Vatican II there is an Apostasy, and we all see the problems, but where will we go ? We can't all go to where Bishop Williamson is, or Bishop Sanborn, or whoever. We are the sheep and if the shepherds are wolves the Lord will take that into consideration. The Lord left us with instructions for times like these. Do as they say, not as they do.

Ok John, become an Anglican then. Problem solved by apostasy. Good luck.
I haven't mentioned the notion that Francis might not be pope.  I don't understand why it is even coming up.

There are two views here. 

One, yours, which is that the Church is NOT made up of those who profess the same faith, but rather it is a kind of political unity within which any kind of belief can and is professed.  To you I point out that Francis is not orthodox, which should mean nothing (on your principles) as far as his claim to the papacy is concerned, but it should (if you have the faith yourself) be a warning not to make the mistake of trying to learn from him.  And that was my intention in starting the thread.

The other theory, my own, is simply classical Roman theology, which holds that the Church is a visible unity of those who profess the same faith, and that heretics are outside and not members and parts of the Church.  In this theological system, undisputed before Vatican II, the pope is necessarily the chief professor of the faith, and anybody who does not profess that faith cannot be a Catholic or indeed hold any authority in the Church.  But I'm not here to discuss or debate my own views, despite the fact that they are plainly the traditional doctrine of the Catholic Church, because that is against the rules.  Instead, I repeat, I was merely commenting on a news item with the motive of belling the cat, for those who might otherwise be in danger (not very serious, I grant) of submitting doctrinally to the man they say is the pope.

Anyway, please stop talking about sedevacantism.  It's against the rules, and there is no logical reason, on your own professed principles, for it to come up in a thread like this.

Nor, I repeat, is there any reason for somebody who DOES believe as Francis believes, for anybody to call Dr. Jenson a heretic.  Francis certainly wouldn't!
(06-16-2013, 08:31 AM)Tim Wrote: We all know that since Vatican II there is an Apostasy, and we all see the problems, but where will we go ?

Well, I just go to the SSPX, which I love and which I defend whenever there is a need.
(06-16-2013, 09:42 AM)John Lane Wrote:
(06-16-2013, 08:31 AM)Tim Wrote: We all know that since Vatican II there is an Apostasy, and we all see the problems, but where will we go ?

Well, I just go to the SSPX, which I love and which I defend whenever there is a need.

That's the point they the SSPX are not everywhere. They also have a streak of "sede:" in them and I for one can not abide that. So where do we go ? What is the solution ? Does Bishop Fellay have the authority, as Bishop Lefevbre has said; do not got to the NO Mass. No, neither have that authority. More these postings of yours imply we are blind to these problems and are all Assissi types.  We are not.



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