Cardinal Dolan makes first visit to NYC mosque
#31
For anyone interested, Dr Droleskey just put up an article on the visit to the mosque on Staten Island and how such comments are not in accord with what the Church teaches.
http://www.christorchaos.com/EverFaithfu...igion.html

Joe
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#32
Cardinal Dolan is the face of mainstream American Catholicism. He is part and parcel of the same brand of Catholicism that allows altar girls, communion in the hand, protestant piano tunes, seder meals, preaches universal salvation and makes of the church a branch if UNICEF with a this worldly focus. Did anyone honestly expect much else from any American prelate much less the man that hobnobbed  and yucked it up with Obama?
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#33
(06-22-2013, 09:58 AM)Scriptorium Wrote:
(06-21-2013, 07:52 PM)DustinsDad Wrote: The "road to unity" is the return of souls outside the Church to the unity inside the Church (you speak as if unity is some fuzzy concept not yet realized). Somewhere along the way, ya gotta tell em rather than making them feel comfortable where there at, which is the path straight to hell.

The unity of the Church in her nature as establish as a perfect society is true, and professed in our Creed. It is just as true that Christians, that is those who profess Christ as Messiah and Savior, are not united. And as this forum attests, even those in the Church who profess the Catholic Faith are not unified in many ways about core doctrines like filial submission to the Chair of Peter, teachings of universal Councils, and acceptance of authoritative decisions. Unity is very clearly laid out. This is not made fuzzy by admitting that there is disunity amongst us. And, really, that's part of the extension of Christ's Kingdom, part of the Church on earth achieving visible universality. It is part of our working out of salvation -- learning how to be true disciples of Christ. Unity is a problem which starts with each of us.

(06-21-2013, 07:52 PM)DustinsDad Wrote: The Church's job isn't "world peace" or "building a more tolerant society"...it's job is saving souls. That is something lost apparently on Cardinal Dolan and many, many others these days.

The end is saving souls. The means involves being peacemakers and tolerant. And as I mentioned before, it is better not in spite of best. The peace and tolerance of a pluralist society in agreement on some aspects of the true, the good, and the beautiful, is not the same as a society of fervent Catholics dwelling in peace as brothers. But the former is not in spite of the latter. You seem to think it is, but don't show us how. Nor do you show us in our concrete circumstances how such a "job" is done. Yours seems lofty theory from a convenient place, instead of having an real-world application.

(06-21-2013, 07:52 PM)DustinsDad Wrote: Kind of like how the document on the liturgy says nothing shall be changed unless it genuinely and certainly requires it....then proceeded to command a rewrite of every Sacrament and then some. V2 is schizophrenic.

You seem to forget who judges what is genuinely and certainly required. We belong to a religion in which such judgements are made by the Pope, the man put in that place by Jesus to make just such a decision. Your gripe seems to be with how Christ set up His Church.

Look Scrip,

The Church already is one. To pretend to join with those outside the Church in a "search fir unity", as Pope Pius XI and others before V2 said, presents a false notion of the Church with all the warned about, now realized, bad results. You can call it a new springtime if you want, you can tell yourself the emperor's new clothes are lovely and that. but I cant get on board with that nonsense. You've got a Catholic Cardinal - through same one who hobnobs with Obama and gives the Blessed Sacrament to notorious public sinners - effectively putting the Catholic Church on the dame level as Islam...just one religious flavor in the candy store, communicating as much by his actions as with what he does not say that it just doesnt matter what one believes. The protestants see it, as do the athiests and your fellow Catholics. Its a joke and a mockery of the One True Church that Christ suffered and died on the cross to give us to sit there and say NOTHING even hinting at an offer of conversion for the salvation of their souls. No, the audience there and to anyone who sees coverage of the event comes away with what was in fact communicated by the Cardinal....any religion is good enough for salvation. Even that may be a stretch. For Cardinal Dolan, is religion even about salvation? Meh. Its about being nice. Its about getting along to getvalong and putting those pesky differences...like who Jesus Christ is...in the closet and out of sight. Its about being a better citizen of this world. The world to come isn't on his radar as far as I can see.

And as a blogger recently put it so well...rather than shout "credo!" at every word an action that comes from Churchmen today, I prefer rather to heed the warnings of past popes and the traditional teachings of the Church, and choose not to whitewash such abominable behaviors when they are publicly broadcast out of a false sense of obedience. Maybe, just maybe, if enough folks in the pew called em out and admitted the emperor is walking around buck naked, things could change.

Venting over. Sent from phone so pardon any typos. Have a nice day.

DD
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#34
Let's call him out. Let's call ourselves out too.
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#35
If a Prince of the Church does not promote and defend the Faith, as established by Jesus Christ and first propagated by the Apostles, If He does not point out error and Teach the way of Salvation to those in error, then why do we have a Catholic Church? Really, if all other religions have part of the truth, if all "good" people are justified, if even those who reject Jesus as the True Son of God are OK, why bother? Why evangelize? Why do Mission work? It seems rather pointless to me. If All the worlds religions, no matter how bizarre are OK, then everything the Church has done for over 2000 years, every martyr and Saint, have worked and died for nothing. Every missionary has sacrificed and died for zilch. Nada. Wasted time.
Up until 1962 the Popes and Doctors of the Church were in agreement as to the primacy of the Catholic Church. There have been numerous encyclicals written warning of false ecumenism, irenicism, and the dangers of allowing worldly thought and theology to invade the Church. Yet here we now are, blurring the lines between the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and every other sect, group and wannabe faith cult regardless of how error ridden they are. I find this Orwellian, up is down and down is up. I really cannot grasp the insanity any more.

One more thing, since I seem to have allowed myself to trail off to vent land:
With all Charity, and may God Richly Bless Him, but perhaps if +Cardinal Dolan were to spend more time evangelizing the folks in New York, and devote his time and energies to actually doing the work of an Apostle, He would not have to worry about having too many unused Parishes in New York City.

Pope Francis has warned of the dangers of Career Bishops and Priests. +Cardinal Dolan could be on of the poster children for this warning.
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#36
Want to be scared, think Cardinal Dolan elected at the next Conclave. That's frightening.

tim
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#37
(06-23-2013, 07:23 AM)Tim Wrote: Want to be scared, think Cardinal Dolan elected at the next Conclave. That's frightening.

tim

Yes, Tim, it is. But He, if He could get past his being an American, would fit the apparent requirements of the current power brokers perfectly.
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#38
:helpsmiley:
(06-23-2013, 07:23 AM)Tim Wrote: Want to be scared, think Cardinal Dolan elected at the next Conclave. That's frightening.

tim
:helpsmiley: :helpsmiley:
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#39
The other angle to this is what do the jews and Christians think of Catholics reaching out to Muslims?

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#40
(06-23-2013, 06:43 AM)Dmorgan Wrote: If a Prince of the Church does not promote and defend the Faith, as established by Jesus Christ and first propagated by the Apostles, If He does not point out error and Teach the way of Salvation to those in error, then why do we have a Catholic Church? Really, if all other religions have part of the truth, if all "good" people are justified, if even those who reject Jesus as the True Son of God are OK, why bother? Why evangelize? Why do Mission work? It seems rather pointless to me. If All the worlds religions, no matter how bizarre are OK, then everything the Church has done for over 2000 years, every martyr and Saint, have worked and died for nothing. Every missionary has sacrificed and died for zilch. Nada. Wasted time.
Up until 1962 the Popes and Doctors of the Church were in agreement as to the primacy of the Catholic Church. There have been numerous encyclicals written warning of false ecumenism, irenicism, and the dangers of allowing worldly thought and theology to invade the Church. Yet here we now are, blurring the lines between the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and every other sect, group and wannabe faith cult regardless of how error ridden they are. I find this Orwellian, up is down and down is up. I really cannot grasp the insanity any more.

One more thing, since I seem to have allowed myself to trail off to vent land:
With all Charity, and may God Richly Bless Him, but perhaps if +Cardinal Dolan were to spend more time evangelizing the folks in New York, and devote his time and energies to actually doing the work of an Apostle, He would not have to worry about having too many unused Parishes in New York City.

Pope Francis has warned of the dangers of Career Bishops and Priests. +Cardinal Dolan could be on of the poster children for this warning.

Maybe in a parallel universe...
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