June 25 - Supposed "Emergency" Meeting of the Roman Curia
(06-27-2013, 09:56 PM)loggats Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 09:54 PM)StCeciliasGirl Wrote: So the Vatican's denying it?! :doh: :LOL: Of course. Oh well.

[quote='loggats' pid='1185849' dateline='1372378509']
Just so we're clear though... suffering SSA does not make you an "enemy of God". It's a cross that God has certain people bear, through the mystery of redemptive suffering. And it's that kind of suffering for love that gives us a glimpse of inner-Trinitarian love. A man or woman who sacrifices their sexuality (which is what a person with exclusive SSA must effectively do) and lives a chaste life is worthy of all the respect we can give.

"SSA" is no worse a cross than any other Catholic's cross! Geez, I am so sick of this "I can't screw everyone in the phone book and life's unfair" crap. What about the widow? What about the secretary who has a mad crush on parishioner Bill who is dating someone else? Here's a shocker: HORNY TEENAGE GIRLS! —Are THEIR crosses, having a crush on a boy and not being able to act on it, oh so much lighter than a rainbow cross? REALLY loggats? This "my cross is heavier than yours" is a load of satanic dung that gives me the willies.

SSA, BDSM, bestiality, poly, pre-marital sex, etc are ALL pretty freaking common URGES we ALL pretty much suffer, though some apparently tend towards obsessions. This life wasn't exactly meant to be a bed of roses. People who've suffered far more than those of us with freakin "urges" include the poor, slaves, abused/raped kids, raped anyone, tortured people, unjustly imprisoned people, etc people who have been hurt. Everyone else? We get urges that we have to control OR WE ARE "an enemy of God". (And even those who've been hurt have to control unholy urges — they may truly have heavier crosses, though I still hate comparing cross weight; it's just crap.)
[/quote

Nobody's saying that at all. Read before you start typing tripe.

With all due respect...  to compare a horny teenage girl and those who practice deviant behavior to an individual who has to suffer silently knowing he is unlike his gender by a choice not his own and the emotional toll that comes with it is completely deranged.
Goodnight
Reply
(06-27-2013, 07:48 PM)loggats Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 07:40 PM)PioBenedict16 Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 07:11 PM)loggats Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 06:44 PM)Ursus Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 03:42 PM)Joshua Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 03:29 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: It's time to end priestly celibacy, in my view (except for bishops and for religious, of course). The homosexual subculture will persist as long as things continue as they are.

There is absolutely zero evidence for that fashionable assertion.

Marriage is not a cure or prevention of homosexual and perverted acts.

The Roman tradition of priestly celibacy shouldn't be dismissed. Though I seriously doubt that there are many young gay guys entering the priesthood these days - what's the point? Western culture embraces homosexuality, it's bending over backwards to accommodate gay marriage, and social stigma associated with homosexuality (as an act and/or lifestyle) is a thing of the past.

There's no reason for closeted gay men to evade society (and attempt solitary lives as priests) because there's no reason to remain in the closet - and ultimately, while I'm sure a lot of gay men in the 50s, 60s, and 70s who entered the Church had lofty ambitions, their inability to control their same sex attraction speaks to a mindset that is hiding from an aggressive society rather than embracing the fullness of their vows, including clerical chastity.

And please let's not act like pedophilia is somehow interchangeable with homosexuality. While there certainly were many cases of homosexual abuse, it doesn't follow that every actively homosexual priest was a pedophile, or indeed that every priest who has/had same sex attraction acted upon those impulses (conquering the flesh - the correct and saintly behaviour for any person with SSA).

While I agree we shouldn't label all homosexuals as pedophiles, I do not agree with "what's the point." The point is that exclusively homosexual priests lack that natural ability for fatherhood and place themselves in an environment of increased temptation. It is a service to them that they cannot receive Holy Orders.
I am praying. For Francis. For Benedict. For the Church. This is Paul's smoke of Satan. This is what makes Our Lady weep.

I'm sure you've met a fair few priests who had SSA at some point in their lives. Living a chaste life means overcoming that. It's precisely what the pope emeritus talked about in his recommendation concerning this very subject - a man must have entered into the chaste lifestyle that is required of a Roman Catholic priest, and be fully aware of everything that means. There is no such thing as a "homosexual" in the sense you seem to understand (which is the sense that the modern world wants you to understand) - nobody is ontologically, radically, "gay".

Also this "lack the natural ability for fatherhood" is a stereotype and nonsense. There are as many different kinds of men as there are men and all of them can offer fathering in some sense or another because that is part of being a man. A sterile man can still be a father, a young boy looking after his siblings can be said to "father" them. Same sex attraction is not part of a person in the same way that their masculine/feminine identity is a part of them.

Sir, I believe there are a few misconceptions here. Two men cannot be fathers in the whole meaning of the word, not only for reproductions but two fathers are not complimentary like a mother and father are. So, a man who presents himself as homosexual lacks the ability to be complimentary with a woman. Yes, there are many types of men but the machismo and metrosexual/effeminate are neither authentic. A true man is like Christ. That is the one and only acceptable way to be a man. Feminists have destroyed manhood. Finally, it is impossible to separate sex and gender. That is an error taught in many American universities, including the one I attended. So to take the masculine expression away from a man's sex is to divorce two intrinsically united things. Man is whole not the sum of many parts. Don't buy into queer Gender Theory and its Feminist predecessors. Their theories are evil because they are contrary to God's design of humans.
Reply
(06-27-2013, 10:21 PM)PioBenedict16 Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 07:48 PM)loggats Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 07:40 PM)PioBenedict16 Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 07:11 PM)loggats Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 06:44 PM)Ursus Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 03:42 PM)Joshua Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 03:29 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: It's time to end priestly celibacy, in my view (except for bishops and for religious, of course). The homosexual subculture will persist as long as things continue as they are.

There is absolutely zero evidence for that fashionable assertion.

Marriage is not a cure or prevention of homosexual and perverted acts.

The Roman tradition of priestly celibacy shouldn't be dismissed. Though I seriously doubt that there are many young gay guys entering the priesthood these days - what's the point? Western culture embraces homosexuality, it's bending over backwards to accommodate gay marriage, and social stigma associated with homosexuality (as an act and/or lifestyle) is a thing of the past.

There's no reason for closeted gay men to evade society (and attempt solitary lives as priests) because there's no reason to remain in the closet - and ultimately, while I'm sure a lot of gay men in the 50s, 60s, and 70s who entered the Church had lofty ambitions, their inability to control their same sex attraction speaks to a mindset that is hiding from an aggressive society rather than embracing the fullness of their vows, including clerical chastity.

And please let's not act like pedophilia is somehow interchangeable with homosexuality. While there certainly were many cases of homosexual abuse, it doesn't follow that every actively homosexual priest was a pedophile, or indeed that every priest who has/had same sex attraction acted upon those impulses (conquering the flesh - the correct and saintly behaviour for any person with SSA).

While I agree we shouldn't label all homosexuals as pedophiles, I do not agree with "what's the point." The point is that exclusively homosexual priests lack that natural ability for fatherhood and place themselves in an environment of increased temptation. It is a service to them that they cannot receive Holy Orders.
I am praying. For Francis. For Benedict. For the Church. This is Paul's smoke of Satan. This is what makes Our Lady weep.

I'm sure you've met a fair few priests who had SSA at some point in their lives. Living a chaste life means overcoming that. It's precisely what the pope emeritus talked about in his recommendation concerning this very subject - a man must have entered into the chaste lifestyle that is required of a Roman Catholic priest, and be fully aware of everything that means. There is no such thing as a "homosexual" in the sense you seem to understand (which is the sense that the modern world wants you to understand) - nobody is ontologically, radically, "gay".

Also this "lack the natural ability for fatherhood" is a stereotype and nonsense. There are as many different kinds of men as there are men and all of them can offer fathering in some sense or another because that is part of being a man. A sterile man can still be a father, a young boy looking after his siblings can be said to "father" them. Same sex attraction is not part of a person in the same way that their masculine/feminine identity is a part of them.

Sir, I believe there are a few misconceptions here. Two men cannot be fathers in the whole meaning of the word, not only for reproductions but two fathers are not complimentary like a mother and father are. So, a man who presents himself as homosexual lacks the ability to be complimentary with a woman. Yes, there are many types of men but the machismo and metrosexual/effeminate are neither authentic. A true man is like Christ. That is the one and only acceptable way to be a man. Feminists have destroyed manhood. Finally, it is impossible to separate sex and gender. That is an error taught in many American universities, including the one I attended. So to take the masculine expression away from a man's sex is to divorce two intrinsically united things. Man is whole not the sum of many parts. Don't buy into queer Gender Theory and its Feminist predecessors. Their theories are evil because they are contrary to God's design of humans.

If there is anything innate about "masculinity" then fatherhood is part of that. A man with SSA is not a "non-man" - he is a man with SSA. And there is a whole spectrum of behaviours that go along with that (and I'm not talking about sexual behaviour). A true man is indeed like Christ, who was not the biological father of anybody and whose ability to provide the Father's love was a spiritual gift. I think we should agree on this because I'm certainly not divorcing a man's gender expression from his biological sex - I'd go so far as to affirm that it is his soul that is gendered, and for that reason a man with SSA (a sexual flaw) is not instantly cut-off from all other attributes of being a man. There is no "third sex".
Reply
(06-27-2013, 07:56 PM)Kopp Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 07:51 PM)loggats Wrote: A priest who abuses teenage boys is not a pedophile. He's a criminal

He's also a homosexual.
.

Correct term is Ephebophilia when one is predominately attracted to 15-19 year olds. This is a "paraphilia not otherwise specified" in psychiatry; a mental dysfunction.

That being said, some homosexuals and heterosexuals are ephebophiles and pedophiles so we cannot necessarily place sexual attraction into distinct age demographics, unless the patient's attractions are predominant and/or exclusive.

Also, I do have to point open the LGBT community is more readily accepting of paraphilia and deviance. To wit: NAMBLA was accepted by major homosexualist groups until they hurriedly cast off those baby rapers to get UN recognition, and a transgender supervisor of mine supported zoophilia. Also, the LGBT community has a much higher prevalance of polyamorous relationships. That is proven by factual data. An anything goes community whose basis of unity is "who you want to screw" then has at its core sex.

This is not a defense. Don't mistake me. Sexual acts with any minor under age 18 is rape (statutory). But let's not let them off the hook as merely illegal. Minor abusers committ a grave moral offense and suffer from psychiatric disorder. They need spiritual and psychiatric care.
Reply
(06-27-2013, 10:42 PM)PioBenedict16 Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 07:56 PM)Kopp Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 07:51 PM)loggats Wrote: A priest who abuses teenage boys is not a pedophile. He's a criminal

He's also a homosexual.
.

Correct term is Ephebophilia when one is predominately attracted to 15-19 year olds.

That's a paraphilia - it's still grounded in same sex attraction (homosexuality). Anyway. Glad that's sorted.
Reply
(06-27-2013, 10:31 PM)loggats Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 10:21 PM)PioBenedict16 Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 07:48 PM)loggats Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 07:40 PM)PioBenedict16 Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 07:11 PM)loggats Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 06:44 PM)Ursus Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 03:42 PM)Joshua Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 03:29 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: It's time to end priestly celibacy, in my view (except for bishops and for religious, of course). The homosexual subculture will persist as long as things continue as they are.

There is absolutely zero evidence for that fashionable assertion.

Marriage is not a cure or prevention of homosexual and perverted acts.

The Roman tradition of priestly celibacy shouldn't be dismissed. Though I seriously doubt that there are many young gay guys entering the priesthood these days - what's the point? Western culture embraces homosexuality, it's bending over backwards to accommodate gay marriage, and social stigma associated with homosexuality (as an act and/or lifestyle) is a thing of the past.

There's no reason for closeted gay men to evade society (and attempt solitary lives as priests) because there's no reason to remain in the closet - and ultimately, while I'm sure a lot of gay men in the 50s, 60s, and 70s who entered the Church had lofty ambitions, their inability to control their same sex attraction speaks to a mindset that is hiding from an aggressive society rather than embracing the fullness of their vows, including clerical chastity.

And please let's not act like pedophilia is somehow interchangeable with homosexuality. While there certainly were many cases of homosexual abuse, it doesn't follow that every actively homosexual priest was a pedophile, or indeed that every priest who has/had same sex attraction acted upon those impulses (conquering the flesh - the correct and saintly behaviour for any person with SSA).

While I agree we shouldn't label all homosexuals as pedophiles, I do not agree with "what's the point." The point is that exclusively homosexual priests lack that natural ability for fatherhood and place themselves in an environment of increased temptation. It is a service to them that they cannot receive Holy Orders.
I am praying. For Francis. For Benedict. For the Church. This is Paul's smoke of Satan. This is what makes Our Lady weep.

I'm sure you've met a fair few priests who had SSA at some point in their lives. Living a chaste life means overcoming that. It's precisely what the pope emeritus talked about in his recommendation concerning this very subject - a man must have entered into the chaste lifestyle that is required of a Roman Catholic priest, and be fully aware of everything that means. There is no such thing as a "homosexual" in the sense you seem to understand (which is the sense that the modern world wants you to understand) - nobody is ontologically, radically, "gay".

Also this "lack the natural ability for fatherhood" is a stereotype and nonsense. There are as many different kinds of men as there are men and all of them can offer fathering in some sense or another because that is part of being a man. A sterile man can still be a father, a young boy looking after his siblings can be said to "father" them. Same sex attraction is not part of a person in the same way that their masculine/feminine identity is a part of them.

Sir, I believe there are a few misconceptions here. Two men cannot be fathers in the whole meaning of the word, not only for reproductions but two fathers are not complimentary like a mother and father are. So, a man who presents himself as homosexual lacks the ability to be complimentary with a woman. Yes, there are many types of men but the machismo and metrosexual/effeminate are neither authentic. A true man is like Christ. That is the one and only acceptable way to be a man. Feminists have destroyed manhood. Finally, it is impossible to separate sex and gender. That is an error taught in many American universities, including the one I attended. So to take the masculine expression away from a man's sex is to divorce two intrinsically united things. Man is whole not the sum of many parts. Don't buy into queer Gender Theory and its Feminist predecessors. Their theories are evil because they are contrary to God's design of humans.

If there is anything innate about "masculinity" then fatherhood is part of that. A man with SSA is not a "non-man" - he is a man with SSA. And there is a whole spectrum of behaviours that go along with that (and I'm not talking about sexual behaviour). A true man is indeed like Christ, who was not the biological father of anybody and whose ability to provide the Father's love was a spiritual gift. I think we should agree on this because I'm certainly not divorcing a man's gender expression from his biological sex - I'd go so far as to affirm that it is his soul that is gendered, and for that reason a man with SSA (a sexual flaw) is not instantly cut-off from all other attributes of being a man. There is no "third sex".

I do agree with the above. I hope you didn't think I was classifying those with SSA as non-men. They have disordered desires, a concupiscence that doesn't take away their being men. Trust me, I have compassion for them as for all who suffer. I just like to be clear and not let my information come from evil theories coming from academia. The Ivory Tower is infected with evil.
Reply
(06-27-2013, 10:54 PM)PioBenedict16 Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 10:31 PM)loggats Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 10:21 PM)PioBenedict16 Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 07:48 PM)loggats Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 07:40 PM)PioBenedict16 Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 07:11 PM)loggats Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 06:44 PM)Ursus Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 03:42 PM)Joshua Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 03:29 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: It's time to end priestly celibacy, in my view (except for bishops and for religious, of course). The homosexual subculture will persist as long as things continue as they are.

There is absolutely zero evidence for that fashionable assertion.

Marriage is not a cure or prevention of homosexual and perverted acts.

The Roman tradition of priestly celibacy shouldn't be dismissed. Though I seriously doubt that there are many young gay guys entering the priesthood these days - what's the point? Western culture embraces homosexuality, it's bending over backwards to accommodate gay marriage, and social stigma associated with homosexuality (as an act and/or lifestyle) is a thing of the past.

There's no reason for closeted gay men to evade society (and attempt solitary lives as priests) because there's no reason to remain in the closet - and ultimately, while I'm sure a lot of gay men in the 50s, 60s, and 70s who entered the Church had lofty ambitions, their inability to control their same sex attraction speaks to a mindset that is hiding from an aggressive society rather than embracing the fullness of their vows, including clerical chastity.

And please let's not act like pedophilia is somehow interchangeable with homosexuality. While there certainly were many cases of homosexual abuse, it doesn't follow that every actively homosexual priest was a pedophile, or indeed that every priest who has/had same sex attraction acted upon those impulses (conquering the flesh - the correct and saintly behaviour for any person with SSA).

While I agree we shouldn't label all homosexuals as pedophiles, I do not agree with "what's the point." The point is that exclusively homosexual priests lack that natural ability for fatherhood and place themselves in an environment of increased temptation. It is a service to them that they cannot receive Holy Orders.
I am praying. For Francis. For Benedict. For the Church. This is Paul's smoke of Satan. This is what makes Our Lady weep.

I'm sure you've met a fair few priests who had SSA at some point in their lives. Living a chaste life means overcoming that. It's precisely what the pope emeritus talked about in his recommendation concerning this very subject - a man must have entered into the chaste lifestyle that is required of a Roman Catholic priest, and be fully aware of everything that means. There is no such thing as a "homosexual" in the sense you seem to understand (which is the sense that the modern world wants you to understand) - nobody is ontologically, radically, "gay".

Also this "lack the natural ability for fatherhood" is a stereotype and nonsense. There are as many different kinds of men as there are men and all of them can offer fathering in some sense or another because that is part of being a man. A sterile man can still be a father, a young boy looking after his siblings can be said to "father" them. Same sex attraction is not part of a person in the same way that their masculine/feminine identity is a part of them.

Sir, I believe there are a few misconceptions here. Two men cannot be fathers in the whole meaning of the word, not only for reproductions but two fathers are not complimentary like a mother and father are. So, a man who presents himself as homosexual lacks the ability to be complimentary with a woman. Yes, there are many types of men but the machismo and metrosexual/effeminate are neither authentic. A true man is like Christ. That is the one and only acceptable way to be a man. Feminists have destroyed manhood. Finally, it is impossible to separate sex and gender. That is an error taught in many American universities, including the one I attended. So to take the masculine expression away from a man's sex is to divorce two intrinsically united things. Man is whole not the sum of many parts. Don't buy into queer Gender Theory and its Feminist predecessors. Their theories are evil because they are contrary to God's design of humans.

If there is anything innate about "masculinity" then fatherhood is part of that. A man with SSA is not a "non-man" - he is a man with SSA. And there is a whole spectrum of behaviours that go along with that (and I'm not talking about sexual behaviour). A true man is indeed like Christ, who was not the biological father of anybody and whose ability to provide the Father's love was a spiritual gift. I think we should agree on this because I'm certainly not divorcing a man's gender expression from his biological sex - I'd go so far as to affirm that it is his soul that is gendered, and for that reason a man with SSA (a sexual flaw) is not instantly cut-off from all other attributes of being a man. There is no "third sex".

I do agree with the above. I hope you didn't think I was classifying those with SSA as non-men. They have disordered desires, a concupiscence that doesn't take away their being men. Trust me, I have compassion for them as for all who suffer. I just like to be clear and not let my information come from evil theories coming from academia. The Ivory Tower is infected with evil.
Indeed. Twhole of creation is "infected". Our only cure is Christ.
Reply
(06-27-2013, 10:42 PM)PioBenedict16 Wrote: Minor abusers committ a grave moral offense and suffer from psychiatric disorder. They need spiritual and psychiatric care.
and prison
Reply
(06-27-2013, 11:06 PM)April32010 Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 10:42 PM)PioBenedict16 Wrote: Minor abusers committ a grave moral offense and suffer from psychiatric disorder. They need spiritual and psychiatric care.
and prison
or a millstone....
Reply
Quote:The liturgy is what changed. I look at NO priests and think they HAVE to be gay to say that crap they say.
St. Cecilia, for the love of God, please moderate what you say. Please.

This business makes me sick. The Barque of Peter looks close to shipwreck. How long?
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