Declaration on the occasion of the 25th anniversary of the episcopal consecratio
#11
(06-28-2013, 02:26 PM)Basilios Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 02:19 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 02:13 PM)Basilios Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 02:06 PM)Geremia Wrote: They haven't. One doesn't need "to dialogue" to be in communion… The Church has never condemned the SSPX as schismatic or heretical; they're still in the Church.

Yeah but no. I'm not getting into an argument about it, but as far as I am concerned, the SSPX are outside the Church. Not arguing about it so don't ask why etc (I've made my points elsewhere).

You do not have the authority to go beyond Church teaching in this matter.  Geremia is right.

It's not Church teaching. If it were, I'd be behind it.

Don't you know you can be in communion with somebody you never talk to, listen to, pay attention to, or care about?  Through magic, I presume.

This news sickens me.
Reply
#12
(06-28-2013, 02:16 PM)nmoerbeek Wrote: In my opinion Documents like that take while to write and pass under too many eyes first.  This was probably drafted a long time ago.
Yes, you're probably right, since it is very well-written. The occasion was certainly the 25th anniversary of the consecrations.
Reply
#13
(06-28-2013, 02:26 PM)Basilios Wrote: It's not Church teaching. If it were, I'd be behind it.
Certainly, you can judge someone a schismatic or heretic before the Church makes an official judgment, but in this case, the Church has already judged quite to the contrary.
Reply
#14
(06-28-2013, 02:37 PM)Parmandur Wrote: Don't you know you can be in communion with somebody you never talk to, listen to, pay attention to, or care about?  Through magic, I presume.
Baptized Catholics tens of thousands of miles apart are closer than a Catholic to his heathen next-door-neighbor.
(06-28-2013, 02:37 PM)Parmandur Wrote: This news sickens me.
What about it?
Reply
#15
(06-28-2013, 02:37 PM)Geremia Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 02:13 PM)Basilios Wrote: Yeah but no. I'm not getting into an argument about it, but as far as I am concerned, the SSPX are outside the Church. Not arguing about it so don't ask why etc (I've made my points elsewhere).
I'd trust the Church in such a matter. Has the Church proclaimed the SSPX schismatic or heretical? Quite to the contrary, e.g., when Pope Benedict XVI lifted its bishops' excommunications

Like when the Pope and the Orthodox Patriarch (forget which one) lifted the mutual excommunications some 40 years ago? Oops must've missed the part where the Orthodox are now in full communion. The Church has not said that they are in full communion. Rather the opposite save for one or two prelates (which does not equal the Church). I am in fact being very traditional by acknowledging that the SSPX are not in Communion with Rome. From a traditional perspective they are not. It's plain to see in my opinion. If you think otherwise then that is okay, and I won't force you to think otherwise.

That's all I am gonna say on it.
Reply
#16
Very sad that they've chosen to go this direction. But no doubt some traditionalists are relieved
Reply
#17
(06-28-2013, 02:45 PM)Geremia Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 02:37 PM)Parmandur Wrote: Don't you know you can be in communion with somebody you never talk to, listen to, pay attention to, or care about?  Through magic, I presume.
Baptized Catholics tens of thousands of miles apart are closer than a Catholic to his heathen next-door-neighbor.
(06-28-2013, 02:37 PM)Parmandur Wrote: This news sickens me.
What about it?

Look, I'm not saying the SSPX is in schism.  But this certainly isn't a move away from schism, but rather inching closer to the cliff.
Reply
#18
(06-28-2013, 02:13 PM)Basilios Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 02:06 PM)Geremia Wrote: They haven't. One doesn't need "to dialogue" to be in communion… The Church has never condemned the SSPX as schismatic or heretical; they're still in the Church.

Yeah but no. I'm not getting into an argument about it, but as far as I am concerned, the SSPX are outside the Church. Not arguing about it so don't ask why etc (I've made my points elsewhere).

As far as you and a handful of people on CA that want people to think they are outside the Church.  It's modernist type thinking. Denial really.

Popes don't lift excommunications on those outside the Church.

To say the SSPX clergy are suspended and have no valid ministry at this time, is true, in the eyes of the Church. That is their stance. To say anything otherwise places one in the exact same situation as the SSPX .

That is what you are trying to do here, is stay in full communion with Rome and be orthodox. Can't call yourself orthodox if you pick and choose what you want to believe or not believe. That's Cafeteria Catholicism.
Reply
#19
(06-28-2013, 02:58 PM)Whitey Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 02:13 PM)Basilios Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 02:06 PM)Geremia Wrote: They haven't. One doesn't need "to dialogue" to be in communion… The Church has never condemned the SSPX as schismatic or heretical; they're still in the Church.

Yeah but no. I'm not getting into an argument about it, but as far as I am concerned, the SSPX are outside the Church. Not arguing about it so don't ask why etc (I've made my points elsewhere).

As far as you and a handful of people on CA that want people to think they are outside the Church.  It's modernist type thinking. Denial really.

Popes don't lift excommunications on those outside the Church.

To say the SSPX clergy are suspended and have no valid ministry at this time, is true, in the eyes of the Church. That is their stance. To say anything otherwise places one in the exact same situation as the SSPX .

That is what you are trying to do here, is stay in full communion with Rome and be orthodox. Can't call yourself orthodox if you pick and choose what you want to believe or not believe. That's Cafeteria Catholicism.

Suspended clergy commit a mortal sin every time they publicly celebrate the Sacraments.  This is grave matter, and that they are no longer in talks to end the sad situation is grim news.
Reply
#20
Mortal sin ? I've only seen forum members say that. Got quotes from anyone in the Curia ?

Let's hope the "Curia of the VII Sodomite Religion" is dealt with before pointing fingers at a society of priests who simply want the Church to remain orthodox.

What orthodox group would want to succumb to such perversion ?
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)