Declaration on the occasion of the 25th anniversary of the episcopal consecratio
#41
(06-28-2013, 05:54 PM)Parmandur Wrote: Irregularity is evil.  It is not as evil as schism, but it is about as evil as the (besides the point) gay mafia clergy.  It is not to be celebrated, it is to be mourned.  That the SSPX leadership are no longer working to end their sad state is disgusting, just as the homosexual rings within the Church are disgusting.

Now this is vile and obnoxious.  The comparison of the SSPX's efforts to the "gay mafia clergy" is remarkably inappropriate.
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#42
(06-28-2013, 08:53 PM)Geremia Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 05:54 PM)Parmandur Wrote: Irregularity is evil.  It is not as evil as schism, but it is about as evil as the (besides the point) gay mafia clergy.  It is not to be celebrated, it is to be mourned.  That the SSPX leadership are no longer working to end their sad state is disgusting, just as the homosexual rings within the Church are disgusting.
The neo-Modernist errors of Vatican II and the bastard Novus Ordo and all Paul VI's new, fabricated sacraments is what's disgusting.

This is a red herring (and heresy, but we will get to that). Are you disagreeing with his statement or not? Evil is not a zero sum game, nor is one's ability to oppose evil. If the SSPX is wrong in the respects outlined, you have no right to try and justify its actions, regardless of whether what you said is true or not.

Moreover, as best I can interpret it, your statement is blatant heresy. Calling the Sacraments "fabricated," so far as I can tell, implies that they are not in fact Sacraments, which in turn leads me to believe that calling the Novus Ordo "bastard" is equivalent in meaning to saying that it is not truly a Mass. This is heresy.

If this is not what you meant, then you need to be more clear, and avoid polemics when you are incapable of making yourself clear at the same time, lest you scandalize others. Clarity comes before all else, for if you cannot write clearly, you cannot think clearly. If, however, my interpretation was exactly what you meant to say, then I repeat that this is blatant heresy.
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#43
(06-29-2013, 12:12 AM)IrishCowboy Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 05:54 PM)Parmandur Wrote: Irregularity is evil.  It is not as evil as schism, but it is about as evil as the (besides the point) gay mafia clergy.  It is not to be celebrated, it is to be mourned.  That the SSPX leadership are no longer working to end their sad state is disgusting, just as the homosexual rings within the Church are disgusting.

Now this is vile and obnoxious.  The comparison of the SSPX's efforts to the "gay mafia clergy" is remarkably inappropriate.

The gay mafia clergy is in "full communion"" and have regularization and faculties. They might rape your son in the confessional....woops...I mean "reconciliation room'' and they might tell ya dogmas change, heretics go to heaven and as long as you really really love someone you aren't married to its ok to fornicate like there's no tomorrow....but by golly they are in full communion!!! What don't you understand???

***sarcasm hopefully apparent***
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#44
(06-29-2013, 12:18 AM)Beardly Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 08:53 PM)Geremia Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 05:54 PM)Parmandur Wrote: Irregularity is evil.  It is not as evil as schism, but it is about as evil as the (besides the point) gay mafia clergy.  It is not to be celebrated, it is to be mourned.  That the SSPX leadership are no longer working to end their sad state is disgusting, just as the homosexual rings within the Church are disgusting.
The neo-Modernist errors of Vatican II and the bastard Novus Ordo and all Paul VI's new, fabricated sacraments is what's disgusting.

This is a red herring (and heresy, but we will get to that). Are you disagreeing with his statement or not? Evil is not a zero sum game, nor is one's ability to oppose evil. If the SSPX is wrong in the respects outlined, you have no right to try and justify its actions, regardless of whether what you said is true or not.

Moreover, as best I can interpret it, your statement is blatant heresy. Calling the Sacraments "fabricated," so far as I can tell, implies that they are not in fact Sacraments[/, which in turn leads me to believe that calling the Novus Ordo "bastard" is equivalent in meaning to saying that it is not truly a Mass. This is heresy.

If this is not what you meant, then you need to be more clear, and avoid polemics when you are incapable of making yourself clear at the same time, lest you scandalize others. Clarity comes before all else, for if you cannot write clearly, you cannot think clearly. If, however, my interpretation was exactly what you meant to say, then I repeat that this is blatant heresy.

Then Cardinal Ratzinger called the Novus Ordo a "banal, on the spot fabrication. Chill.
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#45
(06-29-2013, 12:18 AM)Beardly Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 08:53 PM)Geremia Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 05:54 PM)Parmandur Wrote: Irregularity is evil.  It is not as evil as schism, but it is about as evil as the (besides the point) gay mafia clergy.  It is not to be celebrated, it is to be mourned.  That the SSPX leadership are no longer working to end their sad state is disgusting, just as the homosexual rings within the Church are disgusting.
The neo-Modernist errors of Vatican II and the bastard Novus Ordo and all Paul VI's new, fabricated sacraments is what's disgusting.


Moreover, as best I can interpret it, your statement is blatant heresy. Calling the Sacraments "fabricated," so far as I can tell, implies that they are not in fact Sacraments, which in turn leads me to believe that calling the Novus Ordo "bastard" is equivalent in meaning to saying that it is not truly a Mass. This is heresy.

The validity is not what is in question, at least not to me. It is a question of legality (illicit). What Paul VI did was start a new church (small "c"), since it was a break from what the Roman rite of the Church has always done. Many popes denounced anyone from doing what he himself did. So, much like the Orthodox have valid sacraments, the Novus Ordo church's sacraments are valid. But as far as the Roman rite is concerned, it was a break. That's why the old rite was never abrogated. It can't be. It would be illegal and a break with tradition, which is what the Novus Ordo is. To call someone heretical for what are the facts is not fair. Watch this video by Fr. Hesse, former secretary to Cardinal Stickler, Doctor in Thomistic Theology and a Canon Lawyer. It's pretty straight forward. And yes, a pope can bind another pope(s).



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#46
(06-29-2013, 12:12 AM)IrishCowboy Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 05:54 PM)Parmandur Wrote: Irregularity is evil.  It is not as evil as schism, but it is about as evil as the (besides the point) gay mafia clergy.  It is not to be celebrated, it is to be mourned.  That the SSPX leadership are no longer working to end their sad state is disgusting, just as the homosexual rings within the Church are disgusting.

Now this is vile and obnoxious.  The comparison of the SSPX's efforts to the "gay mafia clergy" is remarkably inappropriate.

As I said, both are evil.  One evil does not justify the other.  It is not their efforts which are comparable, but rather their sinning which is grave and public.
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#47
(06-29-2013, 12:42 AM)DustinsDad Wrote:
(06-29-2013, 12:12 AM)IrishCowboy Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 05:54 PM)Parmandur Wrote: Irregularity is evil.  It is not as evil as schism, but it is about as evil as the (besides the point) gay mafia clergy.  It is not to be celebrated, it is to be mourned.  That the SSPX leadership are no longer working to end their sad state is disgusting, just as the homosexual rings within the Church are disgusting.

Now this is vile and obnoxious.  The comparison of the SSPX's efforts to the "gay mafia clergy" is remarkably inappropriate.

The gay mafia clergy is in "full communion"" and have regularization and faculties. They might rape your son in the confessional....woops...I mean "reconciliation room'' and they might tell ya dogmas change, heretics go to heaven and as long as you really really love someone you aren't married to its ok to fornicate like there's no tomorrow....but by golly they are in full communion!!! What don't you understand???

***sarcasm hopefully apparent***

Personally evil priests are evil; but whether they can licitly dispense the Sacraments is not to be taken lightly.
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#48
(06-28-2013, 08:55 PM)Geremia Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 05:37 PM)Whitey Wrote: SSPX-SO
With respect to "regularization," aren't the SSPX and SSPX-SO in the same boat?

Yes, I suppose they are.
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#49
(06-28-2013, 02:37 PM)Geremia Wrote:
(06-28-2013, 02:13 PM)Basilios Wrote: Yeah but no. I'm not getting into an argument about it, but as far as I am concerned, the SSPX are outside the Church. Not arguing about it so don't ask why etc (I've made my points elsewhere).
I'd trust the Church in such a matter. Has the Church proclaimed the SSPX schismatic or heretical? Quite to the contrary, e.g., when Pope Benedict XVI lifted its bishops' excommunications
Pope Paul VI lifted the excommunications of the Patriarch of Constantinople in 1967. Does that make him Catholic?
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#50
(06-28-2013, 09:07 PM)Parmandur Wrote: I read his words, which were defensive and avoiding the issue at hand.

No, you stated your opinion that the SSPX clergy commit mortal sin when they pray a Mass.

I simply asked you to provide a quote from a single Churchman stating such and you still haven't done it. You want the question to go away ? Simply state you can't find a source to back up your opinion.

Or does the old "burden of proof" guideline not apply to supporters of the Satanic Catholic Church ?

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