Pope Francis Gives New Hope to Catholic-Orthodox Reconciliation
#1
http://www.aleteia.org/en/arts-entertain...le-2237003


Is Pope Francis’ preference to refer to himself as “bishop of Rome” more than other traditional titles for the papacy a hopeful sign for Catholic-Orthodox relations?

That question was on the minds of those taking part in the recent Orientale Lumen Conference in Washington, D.C. The informal Catholic-Orthodox dialogue, which has been meeting since 1997, held discussions about steps toward full communion between Eastern and Western Christianity.

Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio’s first greeting from the balcony of St. Peter’s Basilica upon his election as Pope Francis struck not a few observers as downplaying his role of universal head of the Church with unlimited jurisdiction worldwide.

“The diocesan community of Rome now has its bishop,” Pope Francis told the crowds in St. Peter’s Square March 13. “And now, we take up this journey: bishop and people. This journey of the Church of Rome which presides in charity over all the Churches. A journey of fraternity, of love, of trust among us.”

The greeting impressed people like Father Thomas FitzGerald, dean and professor of Church history and historical theology at Hellenic College-Holy Cross Greek Orthodox School of Theology in Brookline, Mass. “I think for Orthodox ears, that’s good to hear,” he said during discussions at the Washington Retreat House June 17-20. “Everything else is kind of based on that understanding of him being bishop of Rome. I hope that might be a sign of some things to come in terms of the understanding of his role as the bishop of Rome, the pope, by the Catholic Church.”
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#2
The Orthodox/Catholic divide runs way deeper than the issue of Papal Primacy of jurisdiction...there are also issues like papal infallibility, the immaculate conception, purgatory, created versus uncreated grace and the filioque. I know that there are many on both sides who think it's mostly just about semantics on most of the aforementioned issues but i would urge caution. As the orthodox priest hieromonk ambrose once put it there should be no "rush to embrace" until we both actually share the same faith. while we share more with the orthodox than with protestants we still do not share the exact same faith.the orthodox still reject Florence and Trent and Vatican i. Any reconciliation with us would mean them collectively accepting what they have rejected. That cannot happen just because our current holy father and his last few predecessors seem to want to downplay aspects of the papacy that cause offense to those that are outside the ark of salvation be they protestants or orthodox.
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#3
(07-03-2013, 10:15 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: The Orthodox/Catholic divide runs way deeper than the issue of Papal Primacy of jurisdiction...there are also issues like papal infallibility, the immaculate conception, purgatory, created versus uncreated grace and the filioque. I know that there are many on both sides who think it's mostly just about semantics on most of the aforementioned issues but i would urge caution. As the orthodox priest hieromonk ambrose once put it there should be no "rush to embrace" until we both actually share the same faith. while we share more with the orthodox than with protestants we still do not share the exact same faith.the orthodox still reject Florence and Trent and Vatican i. Any reconciliation with us would mean them collectively accepting what they have rejected. That cannot happen just because our current holy father and his last few predecessors seem to want to downplay aspects of the papacy that cause offense to those that are outside the ark of salvation be they protestants or orthodox.

Talk to any Orthodox clergyman or theologian and they will tell you that reunion will happen only if the Catholic Church became Orthodox itaelf and repudiated papal infallibility, purgatory and indulgences, the Marian dogmas and removed the fillioque from the creed. Obviously these things would never come to pass and there would be another schism if they did.  The pope relinquishing a title does nothing for the Orthodox for because they think the whole Catholic Church is without grace (that is the traditional view at least.)

Now I am sure that they are happy to work with the pope on issues like Christians in the Middle East etc. and the moves of the Pope may help in that regard but talk of reunion is pure fantasy.
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#4
I agree that most Orthodox are more anti-reunion than most Catholics realize.
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#5
It will be a beautiful day when we are reunited.
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#6
(07-03-2013, 11:22 AM)loggats Wrote: It will be a beautiful day when we are reunited.
It will be, because we'll all be in heaven at that point.
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#7
(07-03-2013, 11:24 AM)Papist Wrote:
(07-03-2013, 11:22 AM)loggats Wrote: It will be a beautiful day when we are reunited.
It will be, because we'll all be in heaven at that point.
Hah! A little more hope. Who knows - maybe the horrors of the 21st century are pushing us closer and closer. Maybe Protestant and Orthodox and Catholic will come together as one unified Church. Maybe I've been reading too much science fiction.
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#8
(07-03-2013, 11:26 AM)loggats Wrote:
(07-03-2013, 11:24 AM)Papist Wrote:
(07-03-2013, 11:22 AM)loggats Wrote: It will be a beautiful day when we are reunited.
It will be, because we'll all be in heaven at that point.
Hah! A little more hope. Who knows - maybe the horrors of the 21st century are pushing us closer and closer. Maybe Protestant and Orthodox and Catholic will come together as one unified Church. Maybe I've been reading too much science fiction.
If the illuminate have their way, we'll all be united, even non-Christian religions, in a global one world religion with no dogmas. Won't that be grand.
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#9
That's true, many orthodox believe that the Catholic church is utterly graceless that we don't even have real baptisms! the few orthodox who want reunion are the professional ecumenists...most serious traditional orthodox want nothing whatsoever to do with the Roman Catholic church, considering it little more than a sect of perdition full of manmade dogmas and heresies. The debacle of Vatican II makes us even less credible in their eyes. I would love to see a reunion but it will NEVER happen officially.it's the pipe dream of professional ecumenists and nothing more.
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#10
(07-03-2013, 11:57 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: That's true, many orthodox believe that the Catholic church is utterly graceless that we don't even have real baptisms! the few orthodox who want reunion are the professional ecumenists...most serious traditional orthodox want nothing whatsoever to do with the Roman Catholic church, considering it little more than a sect of perdition full of manmade dogmas and heresies. The debacle of Vatican II makes us even less credible in their eyes. I would love to see a reunion but it will NEVER happen officially.it's the pipe dream of professional ecumenists and nothing more.
This!

Seriously, for those who think that reunion is in anyway likely, they should spend some time on an Orthodox forum. We are not greatly loved there.
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