Pope Francis Gives New Hope to Catholic-Orthodox Reconciliation
#11
It will happen after the consecration of Russia. It just won't be what the ecumenists have in mind plus the converts will be traditional.
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#12
Ecumenists have no real desire for unitiy... unity would put them out of work.
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#13
Quote:The Orthodox/Catholic divide runs way deeper than the issue of Papal Primacy of jurisdiction...there are also issues like papal infallibility, the immaculate conception, purgatory, created versus uncreated grace and the filioque.
Aside from papal infallability, all of these are questions of language and the different modes of theology that characterize East and West. The East are, if anything, more effusive than the West in their praise of Our Lady; they believe She was entirely without sin, etc. They also pray faithfully for the dead. What they really don't like is the juridical language that has traditionally characterized Roman Catholic theology. The filioque clause is no longer a cause for disunity - we've worked that out.

I think if things keep going as they are, we could see some real progress in the next two hundred years.
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#14
(07-03-2013, 04:06 PM)Philosoraptor Wrote: . The filioque clause is no longer a cause for disunity - we've worked that out.

Not true. As long as we believe that the Son plays any role in the spiration of the Holy Spirit, they will count us as heretics.
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#15
Working out the issues of primacy of Rome, the Fillioque, etc. are all very good to do of course, but until we stop seeing crappy Masses and get a handle on the modernist theology running rampant through the Church, there will never be unity with the Orthodox.  Most Orthodox Christians I have encountered, to include priests, are every bit as appalled at the manner in which the NO Mass is regularly celebrated and the heretical theology expressed by so many in the Church as are people here on FE.  There will be zero chance at unity with the majority of Orthodoxy until such time as we in the Catholic Church get our liturgical and theological house in order. 
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#16
I use the jordanville prayer book(russian orthodox) and is surprising that they do not explicitly affirm the Immaculate Conception considering the praise they lavish Our Lady with. I agree that the modernism in Rome and the banal watered down liturgy is a cause for scandal and an obstacle to unity however orthodoxy suffers from modernism too...its just that unlike us they can't force modernism down the throats of the faithful under the guise of obedience to a bishop or a council...at least not on a scale like our own church. I can assure you though, orthodoxy is showing very protestant and modernist tendencies in many circles. The oca's seminary St vladimirs is deeply indebted to the orthodox modernist theology of berdyaev, bulgakov,soloviev and the like and in many places one can see inclusive gendet neutral language bei.g used and such orthodox "spokesman" like Kalistos Ware saying seriously that the issue of womans ordination in orthodoxy is still something to be discussed, meanwhile elder ephraims monasteries are looked on by many as being too strict and cultlike. Make no bones about it the grass isn't greener in Byzantium or Moscow.
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#17
(07-03-2013, 06:16 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: I use the jordanville prayer book(russian orthodox) and is surprising that they do not explicitly affirm the Immaculate Conception considering the praise they lavish Our Lady with. I agree that the modernism in Rome and the banal watered down liturgy is a cause for scandal and an obstacle to unity however orthodoxy suffers from modernism too...its just that unlike us they can't force modernism down the throats of the faithful under the guise of obedience to a bishop or a council...at least not on a scale like our own church. I can assure you though, orthodoxy is showing very protestant and modernist tendencies in many circles. The oca's seminary St vladimirs is deeply indebted to the orthodox modernist theology of berdyaev, bulgakov,soloviev and the like and in many places one can see inclusive gendet neutral language bei.g used and such orthodox "spokesman" like Kalistos Ware saying seriously that the issue of womans ordination in orthodoxy is still something to be discussed, meanwhile elder ephraims monasteries are looked on by many as being too strict and cultlike. Make no bones about it the grass isn't greener in Byzantium or Moscow.

At the same time Orthodox traditionalists have a much easier time justifying themselves than Catholic traditionalists do.

Regarding the immaculate conception it is important to know that the Orthodox have a different view of original sin than the west. That being said they generally have a negative view of the immaculate conception because they think it elevates Mary above humanity. More than one of their theologians has referred to it as making her a "demi- goddess." They also object to the idea of declaring new dogmas in general.
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#18
Quote:Until we stop seeing crappy Masses and get a handle on the modernist theology running rampant through the Church, there will never be unity with the Orthodox.  Most Orthodox Christians I have encountered, to include priests, are every bit as appalled at the manner in which the NO Mass is regularly celebrated and the heretical theology expressed by so many in the Church as are people here on FE.  There will be zero chance at unity with the majority of Orthodoxy until such time as we in the Catholic Church get our liturgical and theological house in order. 
This is true. When I was first making my conversion from Evangelical Protestantism to Catholicism (still hadn't entered RCIA, still hadn't been baptized), I attended a Russian Orthodox Pascha. It was the first beautiful liturgy I had ever seen (four hours long, all standing) and it nearly blew me away. I almost converted on the spot. In a way it would have been easier. Less dreadful liturgies. Straight up traditions. Beautiful discipline.

Yet I couldn't imagine a Church without a father. So here I am, working to restore the traditions of the West (and I have since discovered that a Solemn High Mass is every bit as powerful as the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom), and it's messy. Heresy and schism are easy; orthodoxy - keeping the Faith - that is hard.
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#19
I always thought that we had a better chance of reuniting with the East, but based on what I've heard and read, it will most likely never happen.

Either Rome admits that it got high with turning supreme papal power and other dubious and exaggerated teachings into a dogma, of which it means that we have made infallible teaching fallible, or the Easterners must be forced to admit that they've been in the wrong as an official teaching.

Too bad, I've fantasized that a future pontiff would reunite the two in this century.  :((
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#20
Reunited??? Sure... as soon as they convert.
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