Dancing bishops at World Youth Day 2013
(07-28-2013, 11:32 PM)In nomine Patris Wrote: And how many youths that went there spent the night together, had sex, and went to Communion the next day?  Seeing dancing bishops/priests no doubt "loosened them up" a little bit. Why was St John Vianney so against dancing for lay people? He would have been horrified at the thought of bishops/priests doing so. I know what he would have said, that it would have been better for those bishops/priests to spend all that time hearing confessions.

If I had to put money on it, I'd guess that most of the young people in that crowd really do try to live lives of virtue, including the virtue of chastity. I really do believe that.  I also don't see anything wrong with dancing (in itself, that is). Dancing is great. I'm not good at it, but it's a good and natural thing. My 7 month old grandson, who can't even stand up by himself, dances already in his little bouncy chair.

As far as I'm concerned, if we have the traditional Mass, ALL of the traditional Sacramental rites, traditional Catholic teaching (see FETradition for what I mean by that) coming from our pulpits and catechism classes, and rich family lives centered around the liturgical year, all peppered with traditional Catholic devotions and a zealous charity and desire for good works, including spreading the Gospel, then I'm good, even if the "kids these days" aren't dressed like the kids of the 50s and even if there's an air of informality in our culture (I actually prefer it that way to a great degree).

I dunno, guys. I can't get bent out of shape by the things that seem to bother the "Tradition In Action" crowd. I just can't. For a few reasons. One, I didn't grow up in the 30s, 40s, or 50s, so things like not wearing gloves and hats outside of Mass simply don't bother me. Two, while I regret the loss of a shared aesthetic -- and  lovely ones, too, like the one typified by those pretty gloves and hats, or the beauty of the medieval world -- I also like comfort, easy familiarity, and the ability of people to be a little more individual in how they present themselves to the world.  Three, while I most definitely loathe the lack of manners these days, to me that word encompasses things like helping people save face, helping the weak and elderly, showing gratitude and respect, and other such things rather than "Now, who do I present to whom first if the one is male and the other is female, but the male is older than the female, but the female has a doctorate and the male is a student?" or "should men remove their hats in hallways and elevators, or just in elevators?"

So, I look at the kids in that video and see young folks who are likely very in love with Jesus -- and who need to be taught their Catholic heritage, the reasons why the traditional Sacramental rites are vastly superior, the likely errors they've been taught in catechesis, etc. I don't see "de facto pagans" who likely rutted like pigs in their tents the night before. I find their joy to be a lovely thing, something we in the trad world could use more of. They just need to be taught the rest of the story. And we trads have to be careful not to scare them away with an elitist "TIA" approach to things that have nothing to do with Catholicism in themselves (e.g., their schleppy jeans and T-shirt outfits).

As to the Bishops dancing:  as was said before me, it was outside of the liturgy, thank God. Their dancing around, very much like "pre-schoolers," as the initial post said, is pretty much how our culture is nowadays. They're a part of that, for better or for worse. I wish they, themselves, hadn't taken part in that dancing bit because it does look pretty silly for anyone over the age of 20 or so. And I'd bet that most of them walk the world with this sense of "shame" about their office, likely feeling awkward if someone were to want to kiss their rings. I don't mind their acting human and having some fun -- but I do lament their (as a group) not seeing their office as something that isn't about them as men, but about them as descendants of the Apostles. That, I think, is the problem, not their trying to engage young people in seemingly silly ways.

Then again, if the Bishops or their priests were to try to engage young people in seemingly silly ways in the context of the Sacramental rites -- oh, hell no. The sad thing is, though, that it's likely that most of the Bishops in those videos do just that. Which is why we have to get on with the restoration by reaching the young people and changing their expectations so the Bishops and their priests wouldn't feel the "need" to do that in the first place. Trads have work to do.

Just wanted to add this picture (by Brugel the Elder) to illustrate a point I was trying to make in the above post:

[Image: brugel1.jpg]

The medieval peasants didn't have a "Tradition in Action" way about them, worrying about salad forks and such. But they had a profoundly Catholic view of the world, a sense of the Divine Hierarchy, a knowledge of (traditional) Catholic teaching, access to the TLM and all the traditional Sacramental rites, lives shaped by the liturgical calendar, etc.  Those are the things that are important. Oh, and here they are DANCING at a wedding:

[Image: brugel2.jpg]

I think what I'm trying to say is that I believe a lot of trads have a particular "vision" of what Catholics should look like and how they should interact, what their homes should look like, etc. (and so do I; I think it's natural to have an imagination like that) -- but sometimes those visions are held onto so closely that the bigger picture is lost, the things that really matter -- like the Faith itself -- are obscured. So the kids at the World Youth Day weren't typically dressed in long skirts and suits. So they like to dance. So they have their generation's (and mine) easy familiarity between the sexes (which can be a good thing, if you ask me, as long as virtue is guarded). But, really, so what? What's important are charity and the Faith. My guess is they've got a lot of the former; we just need to get them to look more closely at the form of the latter and to ensure they understand Catholic teaching as it's always been. I think letting go of some of the visions we have would make us less bitter and more welcoming -- and more hopeful, too. IOW, another way to look at that video of the millions (literally!) of dancing teenagers is to see them as CATHOLICS who love their Faith! They are likely miscatechized, but they love Jesus and gathered by the millions to show it. Praise God for this! Now let's get to 'em and turn them into trads -- good, solidly catechized, JOYFUL, happy trads who will pass that Faith down to their own kids.
In your pictures, Vox, they're not dancing at Mass.
(07-30-2013, 02:57 AM)Geremia Wrote: In your pictures, Vox, they're not dancing at Mass.

I didn't think they were dancing at Mass in the videos. If they were, then that sucks.
The Beach ball stunt was bad enough... the dancing?!?

They just look Gay.

And the issue, I assume, isn't what the kids are doing/not doing, on the beach - they are the sheep. These Bishops are supposed to be the SHEPHERDS.

More like hired hands. Paid to placate the International Media who applauded them for this spectacle with "and in their excitement, they [the Bishops] for a moment forgot who they were" (BBC, my emphasis).  Paid to defame their position and robes with a frisson of homoeroticism.

And where has such kow-towing got them (and by association - all of us)? Absolutely nowhere.  The younger generation, beyond the jamborees, have not returned, our congregations are ever shrinking and falling into natural decrepitude.  The Evangelicals (who WYD openly apes) laugh at us and have not come over in the (eagerly awaited) droves.  And the Muslims, who by comparison are an example of  'medieval'  prudence and piety (which Vox Clamantis perhaps associates with TradCatholics) - well they certainly laugh us to scorn as obsolete, sissyfied, deranged has-beens.  Quite rightly they prepare to trample us underfoot . Perhaps we deserve it.
The codpieces depicted above are obscenely immodest.

"For that reason it cannot be introduced into liturgical celebrations of any kind whatever: that would be to inject into the liturgy one of the most desacralized and desacralizing elements; and so it would be equivalent to creating an atmosphere of profaneness which would easily recall to those present and to the participants in the celebration worldly places and situations.

Neither can acceptance be had of the proposal to introduce into the liturgy the so-called artistic ballet[2] because there would be presentation here also of a spectacle at which one would assist, while in the liturgy one of the norms from which one cannot prescind is that of participation."

Notice that this was given POST V-II.
This turns the church into a joke. Sickening and should be condemned.

Youth needs the strength and consistency of tradition and majesty of the Catholic Church. Everyone will look back at this as a joke and foolish.
(07-30-2013, 02:57 AM)Geremia Wrote: In your pictures, Vox, they're not dancing at Mass.

Neither were the bishops in the video.
The 15,000th reason why WYD should be abolished.

Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)