What species orientation are you?
#31
Quote:Pedosexual
When I saw this, my first thought was about feet.

My second thought was to correct my first thought.

My third thought was that I must be an ideosexual. I do not yet know what this means.


That is all.
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#32
...what is going on here?
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#33
(08-03-2013, 04:16 PM)Basilios Wrote:
(08-03-2013, 03:54 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: Your problem is that you're confusing biological orientation in terms of natural law with a psychological orientation, many varieties of which do exist, including that of eating glass:

Biological and ontological orientation. Which is what I was always talking about. I was never talking about a subjective mental state. But nor are people who claim to have a homosexual orientation. They never just mean "Oh my psychological mental state says I am unnaturally attracted to the same sex". That's not what they mean, and it's definitely not what the liberals want you to think when you see the phrase 'homosexual orientation'. This is the whole point.

Well, that's the problem, because homosexuality is a subjective mental state. Most mental states are subbjective. I don't care what you think liberals mean and I disagree with you that what most homosexual people mean when they say they have a homosexual orientation is anything more than just that. What else do you think they mean? And how does the phrase "homosexual orientation" infer anything other than, well, a sexual orientation toward those of the same sex?

(08-03-2013, 04:16 PM)Basilios Wrote: If 'homosexual orientation' = psychological perversion then it's okay to use the phrase.

Homosexual orientation means homosexual orientation, that is, a sexual orientation toward those of the same sex. We Catholics know it's a disorder. Some folks might not think it is. But the phrase means what it says and that's all it means.

(08-03-2013, 04:16 PM)Basilios Wrote:
Quote:Some people can be oriented toward doing evil.

They are not oriented towards it so much as they have a perverted will or darkened intellect. We all seek the good (in a general sense), and depending on our will and intellect we do things that are evil thinking them to be good for us somehow. Just because people do evil things and behave in evil ways it doesn't make them oriented towards evil.

It's like saying that every human creature is oriented towards hell. Well, no they aren't. We're all oriented towards Heaven, it's our lifes telos. Just because some people end up in Hell and do things that make them go there doesn't make it any less truthful that we were all made for God by God to spend eternity with Him in Heaven.

Quote:That doesn't make their behavior "on par" with doing good

But that's the whole point about this modern phrase 'sexual orientation'. It places everything on equal footing.

"Hey Tim whats your sexual orientation?"
"I'm heterosexual what about yourself Sarah?"
"Oh, I'm homosexual and my wife is bisexual with a preference for women which is why we're married!"
"Awesome!"

All the things we say about homosexuality apply equally to pedophilia, correct? Perversion, immoral, some people have that attraction. So let me ask you how you'd feel if the next time you filled in a questionnaire this came up:

What is your sexual orientation?
a) Heterosexual
b) Bisexual
c) Homosexual
d) Pedosexual

Do you feel okay with this? Why or why not? Would the world feel okay with this? NO. Why? Because they know what it means. It means that finding children sexually enticing is equal to heterosexuality. It means it's just another choice amongst a few others. This is why words are so important.

Quote:And yeah, human behavior is fluid. That's what makes people fascinating.

Vox, are you saying that it's interesting that people sin or that we have horrible reminders in all of us of original sin?
If sexuality is fluid then natural law is wrong and so is Catholic teaching on sexual ethics and morality.

Why wouldn't I be OK with the above phrasing? Why do you think the world wouldn't be OK with it? Most folks know that pedphiles exist. It's not anything new. Yup, some folks are pedophiles; they are oriented toward having sex with children. Yup, that's the definition, and I don't see the hangup with the phrasing. It doesn't put pedophilia on "equal footing" with heterosexuality oriented toward post-pubescents. It simply doesn't.

It is interesting that people sin and that we have reminders of original sin both. Murder is also "natural" -- and one could say that serial killers are oriented toward it -- but that doesn't mean Catholic teaching against it is wrong. And stating that homosexual orientations exist doesn't make it "natural" in the first place.
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#34
(08-03-2013, 07:18 PM)RedCaves Wrote: ...what is going on here?

Basilios says homosexual orientations don't exist.
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#35
i think basilios needs to come to terms with the fall of creation.  it's real.  it has consequences.  those consequences are real -- real, physical consequences that perdure.  to deny them is to deny the fall.  denial of the fall is a hallmark of paganism.  and that is quite ironic.

in other words, the way it's supposed to be is not the way it is.  that's what the fall means.
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#36
Try THIS one on for size: My brother , his wife and daughter (my neice) "came out of the closet" at the same time! :O 
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#37
I believe with the feet it is called podophilia. I had the chance to go to podiatry school-but I'm not "toe up." :LOL:
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#38
I have 7 dogs...


...does that mean I'm Canine-sexual? Oh my... :blush:
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#39
(08-03-2013, 08:04 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(08-03-2013, 04:16 PM)Basilios Wrote: If 'homosexual orientation' = psychological perversion then it's okay to use the phrase.

Homosexual orientation means homosexual orientation, that is, a sexual orientation toward those of the same sex. We Catholics know it's a disorder. Some folks might not think it is. But the phrase means what it says and that's all it means.

I agree, up to a point.  I think homosexual orientation IS a kind of psychological perversion (as we agree), but the word orientation can be taken to just mean attraction or inclination to something; in this case it is something perverse, but it is still orientation. However, I understand that sometimes people (stupid people, perhaps) take the word orientation to mean one choice among many equal things (a natural tendency God might give us, even if there were no original sin, towards one of many equal things).

I don't think we should change the phrase "same-sex attraction" to "same-sex orientation" (SSA to SSO)  Just saying "attraction" seems to be less subject to the idea that not only is it an attraction but a acceptable tendency that is built-in to the depths of our very nature. It's not a disorder like a hand with 6 fingers; it is in opposition to God's creation of both Adam and Eve.

"Orientation" is so commonly used by pro-gay liberals that it worries me.
I do understand that sometimes we have to talk their language, but maybe that shouldn't be taken for granted.

So the word "orientation" doesn't totally bother me, but I think I somewhat understand Basilios' point of view.
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#40
A cat? I don't know Basilios. I'm just not feline it.
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