Pope Francis writes a letter
#11
(08-03-2013, 11:27 AM)2Vermont Wrote: I admire your ability to try to find the silver lining, but, given your post, I do not understand this, which the Pope also said:

“I also think with affection of those Muslim immigrants who this evening begin the fast of Ramadan, which I trust will bear abundant spiritual fruit.

He didn't just offer good wishes.

I too hope they get abundant spiritual fruit from Ramadan.  Perhaps God the Father (which, according to the current Caetechism, says that Islams believes in) will reward their very Lenten-ish type practices by giving them a clearer picture of the Trinity.

That'd be some solid spiritual fruit there, something very much worth praying about.
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#12
(08-04-2013, 12:12 AM)Melchior Wrote:
(08-03-2013, 11:27 AM)2Vermont Wrote: I admire your ability to try to find the silver lining, but, given your post, I do not understand this, which the Pope also said:

“I also think with affection of those Muslim immigrants who this evening begin the fast of Ramadan, which I trust will bear abundant spiritual fruit.

He didn't just offer good wishes.

I too hope they get abundant spiritual fruit from Ramadan.  Perhaps God the Father (which, according to the current Caetechism, says that Islams believes in) will reward their very Lenten-ish type practices by giving them a clearer picture of the Trinity.

That'd be some solid spiritual fruit there, something very much worth praying about.

Sure we can pray for that. However, Islam is a false and diabolical religion (well at least that's what the Church taught prior to Vatican II anyway).  Therefore, we can't really "trust" that Muslim prayers will bear "abundant" fruit.

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#13
Two things that I think are important here.
1 - Ramadan comes from Lent. When Mohammed founded his religion he took many aspects of the Catholic Faith and incorporated them into his new religion that he was founding.
2 - The pope is calling for a recipricosity and laying the groundworks for the demand for a genuine mutual respect. 
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#14
(08-03-2013, 03:52 PM)Tim Wrote: There is another piece of the south americanization of the Papacy. When Paul VI sent Fr. Kevane to develop a group of the US laity to assist the Latin American Bishops, the nascent NCCB, later the USCCB, already had a program there to "liberation theologize" the people. In Kevane's book Betrayed, he name Msgr. IIlyich as a homosexual commie organizing priest working for the then Bishop Bernardin. The NCCB completely overturned Pope Paul VI's program and caused Kevane to leave the priesthood.
Tim
I would suggest to you that the problems with the liberation theology and Fr Kevane's decision to leave the priesthood are related.
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#15
Here is more in relation to teh Pope's message to the Muslims at the end of Ramadan;
Muslims around the world have been marking the end of their holy month of Ramadan which concluded with the feast of Eid al-Fitr on Thursday. Pope Francis sent a personal message marking this special feast day, expressing his “esteem and friendship for all Muslims, especially those who are religious leaders.”

Focusing on the theme ‘Promoting mutual respect through education’, the message stresses the importance of thinking, speaking and writing respectfully about others and always avoiding unfair criticism or defamation. Families, schools, religious teaching and the media, it says, all have a role to play in achieving this goal.Underlining the importance of positive interreligious relations, the Pope says Christians and Muslims are called to respect the teachings, symbols, values and especially the leaders and places of worship of the other religion.

To find out more about the impact of this papal message on Christian-Muslim dialogue, Philippa Hitchen spoke to Archbishop Kevin McDonald, head of the English and Welsh bishops’ office for interfaith relations:

Listen; 

"I think it's very significant because Pope Francis has emerged as an international figure, people are talking about him and he's very much part of the landscape so I think the fact that he is sending a message in person has been very well received....

At the Bishops Conference we circulate it to all dioceses and send it to a long list of Muslim contacts, but we also encourage priests at the local level to take it round to their mosques....so it has quite a wide circulation....

I think there is a lot of goodwill in England....we had this awful event of the killing of Lee Rigby and shortly after that, I and other religious leaders were invited to the local mosque and we had a very good meeting.....I felt there was a very real sense that we need to do something together...I think there's an increasing number of people in this country who do have a sense that they need to nurture their young people in a different kind of way and to take steps to counteract any danger of radicalisation - the picture is mixed but there are a lot of positive signs....."


http://www.news.va/en/news/impact-of-pop...nd-of-rama

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#16
From the Harvesting the Fruit of Vatican 2 Blog...
http://www.harvestingthefruit.com/papal-...o-wiccans/
Quote:Papal greeting to Wiccans

OK… Every time I use parody lately, I end up having to point out later, “Hey guys, this is just a parody.” So, right out of the gate, know that this is. Don’t, however, let that fool you into thinking this isn’t a very serious subject.

The Holy Father just issued a message to Muslims; i.e., those who worship the false god, Allah, to mark the end of Ramadan, the feast dedicated to “amplifying” this figment of the false prophet Muhammad’s imagination.

Speaking of imagination, imagine if you will what a similar message to another false religion might look like.

Message from His Holiness Pope Francis to Wiccans throughout the World

It gives me great pleasure to greet you as you celebrate the sabbat of Lughnasadh, so commencing the month of August, dedicated mainly to honoring Lugh, the sun god.

This year, the first of my Pontificate, I have decided to sign this traditional message myself and to send it to you, dear friends, as an expression of esteem and friendship for all Wiccans, especially those who are religious leaders.

This year, the theme on which I would like to reflect with you and with all who will read this message is one that concerns both Wiccans and Christians: Promoting Mutual Respect through Education.

Turning to mutual respect in interreligious relations, especially between Christians and Wiccans, we are called to respect the religion of the other, its teachings, its symbols, its values.

It is clear that, when we show respect for the religion of our neighbors or when we offer them our good wishes on the occasion of a religious celebration, we simply seek to share their joy, without making reference to the content of their religious convictions.

At the Mass marking the beginning of my ministry, I greatly appreciated the presence of so many civil and religious leaders from the Wiccan world. With these words, I wished to emphasize once more the great importance of dialogue and cooperation among believers, in particular Christians and Wiccans, and the need for it to be enhanced.

With these sentiments, I reiterate my hope that all Christians and Wiccans may be true promoters of mutual respect and friendship, in particular through education.


Seems preposterous, doesn’t it? Well, it should.

So, what is the primary difference between the message of the pope to Muslims and the parody above?
Some will be tempted to answer, “We worship the same God as Muslims!” Others who know better may be tempted to point to claims of “common patronage” in Abraham.  Others still will point to “monotheism” and the fact that Wicca is far more obviously false.

All of these responses speak to the very reason why the pope’s message to Muslims is even more dangerous and ill advised than the parody message to Wiccans; namely, it lends credibility to a demonstrably false religion that is at pains to disguise itself as being dedicated to the One true God.

And isn’t that Satan’s way, to dress up his lies in the cloak of believability in order to entice more souls to Hell?
Objectively speaking, the practice of Islam cannot lead to salvation. That’s Catholic dogma. Even so, the Holy Father said that in so greeting the Muslim world, “we simply seek to share their joy, without making reference to the content of their religious convictions.”

With all respect, this is ludicrous. How can the Vicar of Christ “share the joy” that comes from worshiping the false god of a false religion that rejects Jesus Christ without “making reference to the content of their religious convictions?” Like it or not, this greeting is just such a commentary. It’s also a commentary on the conviction of the Church, misrepresentative though it may be.

Sorry, Holy Father, you have missed the mark. The mission of the Church is not to share the false “joy” of those who reject Christ, the mission is to call them to conversion, at which point there will be much joy, not just on earth, but in heaven.

Untold numbers of folks are left thinking all religions are ''more or less good and praiseworthy'' - but it sure was a nice gesture.

DD
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#17
(08-11-2013, 02:09 AM)DustinsDad Wrote: From the Harvesting the Fruit of Vatican 2 Blog...
http://www.harvestingthefruit.com/papal-...o-wiccans/
Quote:Papal greeting to Wiccans

OK… Every time I use parody lately, I end up having to point out later, “Hey guys, this is just a parody.” So, right out of the gate, know that this is. Don’t, however, let that fool you into thinking this isn’t a very serious subject.

The Holy Father just issued a message to Muslims; i.e., those who worship the false god, Allah, to mark the end of Ramadan, the feast dedicated to “amplifying” this figment of the false prophet Muhammad’s imagination.

Speaking of imagination, imagine if you will what a similar message to another false religion might look like.

Message from His Holiness Pope Francis to Wiccans throughout the World

It gives me great pleasure to greet you as you celebrate the sabbat of Lughnasadh, so commencing the month of August, dedicated mainly to honoring Lugh, the sun god.

This year, the first of my Pontificate, I have decided to sign this traditional message myself and to send it to you, dear friends, as an expression of esteem and friendship for all Wiccans, especially those who are religious leaders.

This year, the theme on which I would like to reflect with you and with all who will read this message is one that concerns both Wiccans and Christians: Promoting Mutual Respect through Education.

Turning to mutual respect in interreligious relations, especially between Christians and Wiccans, we are called to respect the religion of the other, its teachings, its symbols, its values.

It is clear that, when we show respect for the religion of our neighbors or when we offer them our good wishes on the occasion of a religious celebration, we simply seek to share their joy, without making reference to the content of their religious convictions.

At the Mass marking the beginning of my ministry, I greatly appreciated the presence of so many civil and religious leaders from the Wiccan world. With these words, I wished to emphasize once more the great importance of dialogue and cooperation among believers, in particular Christians and Wiccans, and the need for it to be enhanced.

With these sentiments, I reiterate my hope that all Christians and Wiccans may be true promoters of mutual respect and friendship, in particular through education.


Seems preposterous, doesn’t it? Well, it should.

So, what is the primary difference between the message of the pope to Muslims and the parody above?
Some will be tempted to answer, “We worship the same God as Muslims!” Others who know better may be tempted to point to claims of “common patronage” in Abraham.  Others still will point to “monotheism” and the fact that Wicca is far more obviously false.

All of these responses speak to the very reason why the pope’s message to Muslims is even more dangerous and ill advised than the parody message to Wiccans; namely, it lends credibility to a demonstrably false religion that is at pains to disguise itself as being dedicated to the One true God.

And isn’t that Satan’s way, to dress up his lies in the cloak of believability in order to entice more souls to Hell?
Objectively speaking, the practice of Islam cannot lead to salvation. That’s Catholic dogma. Even so, the Holy Father said that in so greeting the Muslim world, “we simply seek to share their joy, without making reference to the content of their religious convictions.”

With all respect, this is ludicrous. How can the Vicar of Christ “share the joy” that comes from worshiping the false god of a false religion that rejects Jesus Christ without “making reference to the content of their religious convictions?” Like it or not, this greeting is just such a commentary. It’s also a commentary on the conviction of the Church, misrepresentative though it may be.

Sorry, Holy Father, you have missed the mark. The mission of the Church is not to share the false “joy” of those who reject Christ, the mission is to call them to conversion, at which point there will be much joy, not just on earth, but in heaven.

Untold numbers of folks are left thinking all religions are ''more or less good and praiseworthy'' - but it sure was a nice gesture.

DD

But that wasn't what VII taught!

Oh wait.....
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