Vatican II in error
#31
(08-06-2013, 01:59 AM)DustinsDad Wrote: I believe they are flawed documents. I think if you stand on your head, squint your eyes real tight while simultaneously juggling an apple, an ax and a running chainsaw taking an occasional bite of the apple during the process, you might be able to read them so they don't explicitly contradict pre-V2 teachings.  

Eventually the Church will condemn the errors that came about in the wake of V2. How the council is dealt with I don't know. The answer is probably tied up in the part of the Third Secret of Fatima still not released but we'll just have to see how it all plays out. Probably we'll get the scoop in the smoldering rubble of a post-chastisement world. Unfortunately.

Alls I know is God wins in the end and I pray He keeps me on His side through it all. Safest way is by sticking with the perennial teachings as they've been handed down intact through the ages. I'll pass on the novelties, thank you very much.

Sorry if this is flippant. It's been a long day and I'm beat.

DD

No apologies necessary...at least to me.  I hear you loud and clear, brother.
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#32
(08-06-2013, 11:15 AM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-06-2013, 11:12 AM)Miriam_M Wrote: I completely agree that the chastisement is here already.  There's no other explanation, i.m.o.  

And I do think (I think DD said this) that there will be a Council convened, eventually, to correct the heresies that have been allowed to fester. In the meantime, there are a lot in the Church, from clergy to laity, that desperately don't want anything clarified or corrected and will resist everything in that direction.  That's why there's such a propaganda war, favoring V2.  It's pre-emptive.

But the authorities of the Church are the ones who have allowed these heresies to fester.  How are the faithful supposed to react to that?  This is the crux of my conundrum.

I know you don't like bible quotes, so I will pass on them, but in how many gospel passages are we told not to be deceived, to be sober, or not to be asleep when the master arrives. We have the means to know Truth from Error!  The saints, the church doctors, the rosary.... I am also firmly in the camp that a chastisement is unavoidable and underway.  
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#33
(08-05-2013, 07:56 PM)Tim Wrote: I think many "sleepers" were ready to add wording which would after the council be used to ruin the Church. These were not he only "sleepers" back home in their dioceses were many many more. I believe Bella Dodd's testimony which said by 1950 she had placed over a thousand "sleepers" in the Seminaries starting in the 1930's. That would mean many Bishops and their advisors were commies and poised with the masons and modernists to accomplish Gramisci's plan to infiltrate the Church and change it to shell of it's former self.  These were the plotters and schemers, and the rest followed because it appeared to be the new direction and honestly it was new and cool. It is stupefying how a cadre of these similar schemers and malcontents did take control and lead so many by their nose.

There is a salient point contrary to trad belief. Had the Council stuck to the business it would have been successful, and it was well over due.Many a Bishop and priest and sisters needed to remove their size 13 ee from the necks of the pew sitters, but alas that wasn't what happened.

tim

Thanks Tim,

      I have not read further than Tim's post  but he really believes like I do.  I was listening to something Bishop Sheen was lecturing on and he was describing exactly what we face now.   

May the Lord Bless Us & Grant Wisdom to Prevail within this forum,
MC






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#34
(08-06-2013, 11:50 AM)The Tax Collector Wrote:
(08-06-2013, 11:15 AM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-06-2013, 11:12 AM)Miriam_M Wrote: I completely agree that the chastisement is here already.  There's no other explanation, i.m.o.  

And I do think (I think DD said this) that there will be a Council convened, eventually, to correct the heresies that have been allowed to fester. In the meantime, there are a lot in the Church, from clergy to laity, that desperately don't want anything clarified or corrected and will resist everything in that direction.  That's why there's such a propaganda war, favoring V2.  It's pre-emptive.

But the authorities of the Church are the ones who have allowed these heresies to fester.  How are the faithful supposed to react to that?  This is the crux of my conundrum.

I know you don't like bible quotes, so I will pass on them, but in how many gospel passages are we told not to be deceived, to be sober, or not to be asleep when the master arrives. We have the means to know Truth from Error!  The saints, the church doctors, the rosary.... I am also firmly in the camp that a chastisement is unavoidable and underway.  

Hey now, I never said I don't like Bible Quotes.  In fact, I brought some to the gay thread....lol.  I think it is important to look at both Church teaching and the Bible together.
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#35
(08-06-2013, 11:50 AM)The Tax Collector Wrote:
(08-06-2013, 11:15 AM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-06-2013, 11:12 AM)Miriam_M Wrote: I completely agree that the chastisement is here already.  There's no other explanation, i.m.o.  

And I do think (I think DD said this) that there will be a Council convened, eventually, to correct the heresies that have been allowed to fester. In the meantime, there are a lot in the Church, from clergy to laity, that desperately don't want anything clarified or corrected and will resist everything in that direction.  That's why there's such a propaganda war, favoring V2.  It's pre-emptive.

But the authorities of the Church are the ones who have allowed these heresies to fester.  How are the faithful supposed to react to that?  This is the crux of my conundrum.

I know you don't like bible quotes, so I will pass on them, but in how many gospel passages are we told not to be deceived, to be sober, or not to be asleep when the master arrives. We have the means to know Truth from Error!  The saints, the church doctors, the rosary.... I am also firmly in the camp that a chastisement is unavoidable and underway.  


Could part of the chastisement be the fact, that we have a lot of Bishops who contradict each other form time to time? That the Church kept us from the Latin Mass for so long, and even with everything Pope Benedict XVI did, we are still having a hard time having access to the TLM ? That there are countries where you cannot even find the TLM in places where the people have requested it? That a lot of Catholics  keep accepting the moral decay of the secular world & still consider themselves Catholics  ??? That if we are practicing Catholics, we feel like the minority even within our own parishes?  The frog has been in the pot for a long time..... :((
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#36
(08-06-2013, 11:11 AM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-06-2013, 11:00 AM)Melchior Wrote: Or; the third secret has been released and the consecration happened.

If this was the case, then why wouldn't we KNOW it?

You mean other than that the Vatican has confirmed the third secret was revealed, and that the consecration happened?

I think what would be a big stumbling block for me in the process of becoming a full-blown trad; too much trust issues.  Can't trust the Vatican, can't trust the Pope, can't trust Bishops, can't trust Priests, can't trust Canon Law.  Can't trust anything, really.  Everything and everyone is out to get the traditionalists, at least that's what it sounds like sometimes.
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#37
(08-06-2013, 12:32 PM)Melchior Wrote:
(08-06-2013, 11:11 AM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-06-2013, 11:00 AM)Melchior Wrote: Or; the third secret has been released and the consecration happened.

If this was the case, then why wouldn't we KNOW it?

You mean other than that the Vatican has confirmed the third secret was revealed, and that the consecration happened?

I think what would be a big stumbling block for me in the process of becoming a full-blown trad; too much trust issues.  Can't trust the Vatican, can't trust the Pope, can't trust Bishops, can't trust Priests, can't trust Canon Law.  Can't trust anything, really.  Everything and everyone is out to get the traditionalists, at least that's what it sounds like sometimes.

I actually didn't know that the Vatican confirmed this.  When did this happen?

Besides that, you're right.  I have serious trust issues.  The difference between you and I is that I think there is good reason to have them.
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#38
Russia hasn't been consecrated. Nobody has ever said that it has*. Even if they did, using your brain you can see that it hasn't. We've had what, 4-5 attempts now?

* nobody with authority and/or nobody out-rightly proclaiming that it has.
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#39
(08-06-2013, 12:47 PM)Basilios Wrote: Russia hasn't been consecrated. Nobody has ever said that it has*.

the fake Sr. Lucy said it.  (but she wouldn't have any authority, because she was a fake, right?  :Hmm:)
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#40
(08-06-2013, 12:37 PM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-06-2013, 12:32 PM)Melchior Wrote:
(08-06-2013, 11:11 AM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-06-2013, 11:00 AM)Melchior Wrote: Or; the third secret has been released and the consecration happened.

If this was the case, then why wouldn't we KNOW it?

You mean other than that the Vatican has confirmed the third secret was revealed, and that the consecration happened?

I think what would be a big stumbling block for me in the process of becoming a full-blown trad; too much trust issues.  Can't trust the Vatican, can't trust the Pope, can't trust Bishops, can't trust Priests, can't trust Canon Law.  Can't trust anything, really.  Everything and everyone is out to get the traditionalists, at least that's what it sounds like sometimes.

I actually didn't know that the Vatican confirmed this.  When did this happen?

Besides that, you're right.  I have serious trust issues.  The difference between you and I is that I think there is good reason to have them.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congre...ma_en.html :

Sister Lucia personally confirmed that this solemn and universal act of consecration corresponded to what Our Lady wished (“Sim, està feita, tal como Nossa Senhora a pediu, desde o dia 25 de Março de 1984”: “Yes it has been done just as Our Lady asked, on 25 March 1984”: Letter of 8 November 1989). Hence any further discussion or request is without basis.

In the documentation presented here four other texts have been added to the manuscripts of Sister Lucia: 1) the Holy Father's letter of 19 April 2000 to Sister Lucia; 2) an account of the conversation of 27 April 2000 with Sister Lucia; 3) the statement which the Holy Father appointed Cardinal Angelo Sodano, Secretary of State, to read on 13 May 2000; 4) the theological commentary by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

Sister Lucia had already given an indication for interpreting the third part of the “secret” in a letter to the Holy Father, dated 12 May 1982:
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