Innovative program for LGBT children to begin in my diocese
#1
I need some help understanding this. There seems to be no statement made at all the homosexuality is in fact intrinsically a disordered sexuality. Rather, this article from the newspaper published by my ordinary seems to indicate that the problem lies in everyone else (especially the Church's) understanding of LGBT children. Please, help!

[url][/url]http://metuchencatholicspirit.nj.newsmemory.com/eebrowser/frame/check.7427/php-script/fullpage.php?pSetup=metuchencatholicspirit&file=0@/metuchencatholicspirit/20130718/02.pdf.0/&token=§ion=metuchencatholicspirit&edition=Metuchen%20Catholic%20Spirit&pageNum=2&dr=W#
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#2
[url][/url]http://metuchencatholicspirit.nj.newsmemory.com/


Hopefully this link is better :blush:

Go to 07/18/2013, page 2
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#3
I noticed your signature line. 

Do you think mockery and humiliation directed at these children would be preferable to therapy and education for them and their families?
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#4
(08-06-2013, 08:01 PM)guacamole Wrote: I noticed your signature line. 

Do you think mockery and humiliation directed at these children would be preferable to therapy and education for them and their families?


How is a joke about the anglican heresy analogous to mocking and humiliating children?
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#5
(08-06-2013, 08:01 PM)guacamole Wrote: I noticed your signature line. 

Do you think mockery and humiliation directed at these children would be preferable to therapy and education for them and their families?
One has nothing to do with another.
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#6
(08-06-2013, 08:01 PM)guacamole Wrote: I noticed your signature line. 

Do you think mockery and humiliation directed at these children would be preferable to therapy and education for them and their families?

You must have some sort of fascination with the gay issue (based on you immediate trolling on all threads remotely dealing with that issue).

Regarding that sig line...Do you not know any or what? These folks love gay jokes and laugh the loudest at them.

That's just the sort of one liner that'd have the ones I've known in stitches.

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#7
As for the program in the OP...looks like modern garbage to me that seeks to undermine catholic teaching, while being dressed up in the proper sentimental language gobblitygook that makes any critique of the program hateful.
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#8
(08-06-2013, 08:45 PM)DustinsDad Wrote: As for the program in the OP...looks like modern garbage to me that seeks to undermine catholic teaching, while being dressed up in the proper sentimental language gobblitygook that makes any critique of the program hateful.

I can see where you are coming from; yet, it probably comes down to how we interpret the article.  The worst line I can find is: "A truly innovative component of this project is the establishment of LGBT-affirming treatment in a Catholic setting" (emphasis mine).  What is meant by "affirming"?  Do they mean affirming the people in Christian charity despite their feelings in accordance with CCC 2358, or affirmation of the LGBT feelings themselves?  That probably is the difference between good and bad, here, and is unfortunately ambiguous in this article.  I am inclined to trust +Bootkoski's judgement on the issue over my own interpretation, though.

As guacamole points out, though, what would the alternative be?  For those who legitimately suffer from LGBT tendencies whilst nonetheless striving to live a virtuous Christian life, the discomfort and suffering they endure can sometimes feel overwhelming and unbearable.  And the reception given to them by friends and family can be heartbreaking, rather than supportive.  These together can lead to despair, and even suicide.  Do not these people deserve Christian support?  Should not their family and friends be counselled to provide this support, in accordance with CCC 2358?
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#9
The program looks like it has the promise of helping some gays and lesbians live in harmony with their families, but the ambiguous language also suggests that it might be encouraging families to accept the homosexual behaviors, too.  Overall people who have homosexual tendencies tend to have higher incidences of substance abuse, mental illness and suicidal thoughts than the general population, and alienation from one's family is probably one thing that contributes to these problems.  A therapist with an understanding of Catholic teaching might be able to help the family members to "love the sinner, hate the sin" while at the same time encouraging the person with homosexual tendencies to live a chaste life.

My brother is gay.  I can accept him and live harmoniously with him while at the same time he knows that I don't accept or affirm his choices to have relationships with other men.
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#10
(08-07-2013, 12:42 PM)Steven Wrote:
(08-06-2013, 08:45 PM)DustinsDad Wrote: As for the program in the OP...looks like modern garbage to me that seeks to undermine catholic teaching, while being dressed up in the proper sentimental language gobblitygook that makes any critique of the program hateful.

I can see where you are coming from; yet, it probably comes down to how we interpret the article.  The worst line I can find is: "A truly innovative component of this project is the establishment of LGBT-affirming treatment in a Catholic setting" (emphasis mine).  What is meant by "affirming"?  Do they mean affirming the people in Christian charity despite their feelings in accordance with CCC 2358, or affirmation of the LGBT feelings themselves?  That probably is the difference between good and bad, here, and is unfortunately ambiguous in this article. 

I don't think that's ambiguous at all. It's "affirming" these young people in their disordered passions. It doesn't mention a word about trying to get these young people beyond their disordered passions. The thrust of the whole thing, as far as I can see, is desensitizing folks to homosexuality. It's just one more part of a whole system of desensitization (more on that in a minute). 

The opening line of the article is " “Coming Out.” It can be a terrifying moment for teenagers and young adults when they announce their sexual selves to their parents and families." " Now "coming out", in common usage, means accepting and embracing the disordered homosexual urges/temptations and making a consious decision to embrace them, accept them and announce it to the world in an attempt to get the world to accept and embrace them as well. This is not the right way, it is not a part of the Christian message that's been handed down from the Apostles. And ... "sexual selves" .... good grief!

It's one thing to privately tell parents or friends that you have this serious problem and ask for their prayers and assistance in helping the person to deal with it (either to get them the help to break free of it, and/or to help them live chastely in the meantime)...it's quite another to boldly assert one's disordered homosexual desires publicly and expect everyone to change 2000 years of constant Christian teaching, let alone reject and shut off the ingrained natural law that rejects such behavior.

(08-07-2013, 12:42 PM)Steven Wrote: I am inclined to trust +Bootkoski's judgement on the issue over my own interpretation, though.

I'm not. Look at his quote from the article:
“Though ‘traditional’ Catholic teachings have been viewed by some as antithetical to LGBT behavior, a major tenet of the Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care, as set forth by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, is that society is called upon to care for the most vulnerable of its members.”

Disect this statement if you will, and notice the first problem...he is saying LGBT behavior is not necessarily antithetical to "traditional" Catholic teachings (and it's it wonderful how "traditional" gets put in quotations marks). Sorry bishop...homosexual behavior IS antithetical to Catholic teaching. Period.

That society is called to care for its most vulnerable members is neither here nor there and has nothing to do with sinful behavior.

And the best care you can give these folks is to help them break free from this thing, or help them live chastely while combatting and moving beyond this disordered temptation. True care is not seeking to make them comfortable with this sin.

Will this possibly result in a lifelong battle? A lifelong struggle against this sin? Ayep. So help em, encourage em...to fight. Not to surrender. Their reward will be great on the other side. so help them win the crown. I simply don't trust a program like this has this goal in mind.

(08-07-2013, 12:42 PM)Steven Wrote: As guacamole points out, though, what would the alternative be? 

The alternative that's always been there...well trained holy priests that can help individuals and families deal with this.


(08-07-2013, 12:42 PM)Steven Wrote: For those who legitimately suffer from LGBT tendencies whilst nonetheless striving to live a virtuous Christian life, the discomfort and suffering they endure can sometimes feel overwhelming and unbearable.  And the reception given to them by friends and family can be heartbreaking, rather than supportive.  These together can lead to despair, and even suicide.

True but this article doesn't paint a picture of that situation. Someone struggling with homosexual desires who are seeking to lead a virtuous Christian life don't "come out" - the "coming out" is a media manufactured thing that describes as I said before, an individual giving in to these desires and boldly announcing it to the world.

Can parents and friends be jerks? Sure. The solution is not to wreck society by removing the God-given repulsion to this sin that is built in to our nature.

(08-07-2013, 12:42 PM)Steven Wrote: Do not these people deserve Christian support?  Should not their family and friends be counselled to provide this support, in accordance with CCC 2358?

Eh...sure. That can be handled in other ways besides half page articles promting some interfaith pro gay indoctrination program. The "problem" doesn't justify this sort of in-your-face solution. Talk about planting seeds of this problem in the minds of both young people and parents. There's a variety of ways this thing can cause more harm than good, and not just from the obvious subversion of church teaching that is very likely a part of this curriculum.

Sorry man, I'm just not buying this thing. It's all part of the program coming down from the powers that be to steer society to a particular direction. They hit us in four areas...the media, the education system (and this program came from Georgetown...'nuff said there), politics and in the churches. Look at each of these areas, and you'll find the homosexual propeganda has been hard at work the last few decades and is especially ratcheting it up in the last year. It's a full on blitz from the enemies of the Church  (which includes the enemy within the One True Church) to change the way we think, the way we believe and the way we act.

Hope that explains my position.

Peace,

DD
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