Communion in a Plastic Cup
#21
(08-07-2013, 02:41 PM)St. Pius of Trent Wrote:
(08-07-2013, 02:18 PM)Deidre Wrote: But even IF priests didn't believe in the Real Presence as it has always bween understood, wouldn't their intention to " do what the Church does" when they say the Consecration (regardless of whatever they might think the Church actually does) be enough for Transubstantiation to take place? "supplied..." something...or is that just the case for baptisms?  ???

As long as they KNOW what the Church does, then yes, it would be valid. The problem is that if the priest never knew the Church's teaching about transubstantiation, and the sacrificial nature of his priesthood, then there is legitimate doubt about the validity. Fr. Calvin Goodwin, FSSP, has covered this in the past, and it's quite sobering when thinks through this implication.

Some will say, "Well of course he would know because that's what they teach at the seminary". There have been plenty of facts that have come out about how bad the seminaries have been in the last 60 years, so this is not an absolute. In addition, since the NO does not emphasize the sacrificial nature of the Mass and the priesthood nearly as strongly (if at all) as the Tridentine, this only adds to the issue.

:O This is so unspeakably sad. And infuriating. This whole thing (plastic cups and all) makes me want to cry. How can such things be allowed to happen?! Makes me wish that Jesus would let us "call down fire from Heaven to destroy them," sometimes!
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#22
(08-07-2013, 09:47 AM)2Vermont Wrote: Did you guys see this?


http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2013...iving.html


How is this defensible?  Or is this more "oh you mad rad trads!"


:'((  Very sad indeed...
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#23
(08-07-2013, 03:16 PM)The Poverello Wrote: "The sad thing is that this was truly Christ's body, blood, soul and divinity being passed around in those cups."
Sorry Chestertonian, I have a big problem in believing that what was in those cups was Christ's Body - period

If the Mass was valid, it is Christ's body, no matter what is done to it.

He also allowed lesser men to crucify Him and torture him.  and continues to make himself a prisoner in our tabernacles, vulnerable to such evils.
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#24
Let's see what CAF has to say about it...

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=11074836
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#25
(08-07-2013, 12:53 PM)Whitey Wrote: The average Catholic must not believe in it either.

Over 20 years ago, a survey was done in the Archdiocese of Chicago (at that time, the largest diocese in the US in terms of numbers) which said that 55-60% of 'Catholics' there did not believe in the True, Transubstantiation that the Church teaches. My reaction was to say that, 'No, there are not 55-60% of Catholics there who do not believe it. It just means that there are 55-60% fewer Catholics in the Archdiocese than we had been led to believe!'
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#26
(08-07-2013, 08:24 PM)OzarkCatholic Wrote: Let's see what CAF has to say about it...

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=11074836

As expected, so far it seems that it is not the fact that a massive liturgical abuse was committed or that our Blessed Lord was passed around like a jello shot at a party, or that people violated liturgical rubrics by self-communicating; no, the problem here is that people are talking about it.  Nice job.  Way to focus on the real problem. 
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#27
(08-07-2013, 08:54 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(08-07-2013, 12:53 PM)Whitey Wrote: The average Catholic must not believe in it either.

Over 20 years ago, a survey was done in the Archdiocese of Chicago (at that time, the largest diocese in the US in terms of numbers) which said that 55-60% of 'Catholics' there did not believe in the True, Transubstantiation that the Church teaches. My reaction was to say that, 'No, there are not 55-60% of Catholics there who do not believe it. It just means that there are 55-60% fewer Catholics in the Archdiocese than we had been led to believe!'

That is exactly correct; if you reject one truth, you reject it all

“It is sometimes reported that a large number of Catholics today do not adhere to the teaching of the Catholic Church on a number of questions, notably sexual and conjugal morality, divorce and remarriage. Some are reported as not accepting the clear position on abortion. It has to be noted that there is a tendency on the part of some Catholics to be selective in their adherence to the Church’s moral teaching. It is sometimes claimed that dissent from the magisterium is totally compatible with being a “good Catholic,” and poses no obstacle to the reception of the Sacraments. This is a grave error that challenges the teaching of the Bishops in the United States and elsewhere.”

Pope John Paul ll, September 16, 1987
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#28
(08-07-2013, 08:54 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(08-07-2013, 12:53 PM)Whitey Wrote: The average Catholic must not believe in it either.

Over 20 years ago, a survey was done in the Archdiocese of Chicago (at that time, the largest diocese in the US in terms of numbers) which said that 55-60% of 'Catholics' there did not believe in the True, Transubstantiation that the Church teaches. My reaction was to say that, 'No, there are not 55-60% of Catholics there who do not believe it. It just means that there are 55-60% fewer Catholics in the Archdiocese than we had been led to believe!'

Good point !

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#29
(08-07-2013, 08:59 PM)Sant Anselmo Wrote:
(08-07-2013, 08:24 PM)OzarkCatholic Wrote: Let's see what CAF has to say about it...

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=11074836

As expected, so far it seems that it is not the fact that a massive liturgical abuse was committed or that our Blessed Lord was passed around like a jello shot at a party, or that people violated liturgical rubrics by self-communicating; no, the problem here is that people are talking about it.  Nice job.  Way to focus on the real problem. 

If a person truly believes in the Real Presence, then it's very hard to imagine why they are not appalled by these photos. Those on CA making light of it is telling.
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#30
(08-08-2013, 01:06 AM)Whitey Wrote:
(08-07-2013, 08:59 PM)Sant Anselmo Wrote:
(08-07-2013, 08:24 PM)OzarkCatholic Wrote: Let's see what CAF has to say about it...

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=11074836

As expected, so far it seems that it is not the fact that a massive liturgical abuse was committed or that our Blessed Lord was passed around like a jello shot at a party, or that people violated liturgical rubrics by self-communicating; no, the problem here is that people are talking about it.  Nice job.  Way to focus on the real problem. 

If a person truly believes in the Real Presence, then it's very hard to imagine why they are not appalled by these photos. Those on CA making light of it is telling.

It's a good thing I'm not over there, because there is no way I could keep my mouth shut about their ridiculousness.  Did you notice that it was posted prior but it was closed?  Also, very telling indeed.  Like we need anymore proof that CAF is a fraud.
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