Communion in a Plastic Cup
#31
(08-07-2013, 04:57 PM)Chestertonian Wrote:
(08-07-2013, 03:16 PM)The Poverello Wrote: "The sad thing is that this was truly Christ's body, blood, soul and divinity being passed around in those cups."
Sorry Chestertonian, I have a big problem in believing that what was in those cups was Christ's Body - period

If the Mass was valid, it is Christ's body, no matter what is done to it.

He also allowed lesser men to crucify Him and torture him.  and continues to make himself a prisoner in our tabernacles, vulnerable to such evils.

Another attempt to lessen the apparent problems with the N.O.

One could wonder, without being rash I suppose, if those who crucified our Lord were really "lesser men."
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#32
(08-08-2013, 09:21 AM)OldMan Wrote:
(08-07-2013, 04:57 PM)Chestertonian Wrote:
(08-07-2013, 03:16 PM)The Poverello Wrote: "The sad thing is that this was truly Christ's body, blood, soul and divinity being passed around in those cups."
Sorry Chestertonian, I have a big problem in believing that what was in those cups was Christ's Body - period

If the Mass was valid, it is Christ's body, no matter what is done to it.

He also allowed lesser men to crucify Him and torture him.  and continues to make himself a prisoner in our tabernacles, vulnerable to such evils.

Another attempt to lessen the apparent problems with the N.O.

One could wonder, without being rash I suppose, if those who crucified our Lord were really "lesser men."

Don't accuse me of trying to promote the NO (or "lessen the apparent problems") when that was not my intent.

Of course the men who crucified our Lord were lesser men.  He was God, they were not.  He is the New Adam, the savior of mankind, the spotless lamb and they were cruel sinners.

I am not saying that what happened with the liturgical abuses and plastic cups was any less abhorrent and abusive as it is.  But it doesn't stop Him from sacramentally being there as He was on the Cross.  I am just stating what the reality is.  He truly was in those cups.  It does speak to the humility of Our Lord.  People in the media love to harp on about the humility of Pope Francis, humility, humility, humility.  It is better to reflect on how much our Lord humbles Himself.  He deserves so much better, in the past we have given Him better, yet He endures this. 
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#33
(08-09-2013, 01:06 AM)Chestertonian Wrote:
(08-08-2013, 09:21 AM)OldMan Wrote:
(08-07-2013, 04:57 PM)Chestertonian Wrote:
(08-07-2013, 03:16 PM)The Poverello Wrote: "The sad thing is that this was truly Christ's body, blood, soul and divinity being passed around in those cups."
Sorry Chestertonian, I have a big problem in believing that what was in those cups was Christ's Body - period

If the Mass was valid, it is Christ's body, no matter what is done to it.

He also allowed lesser men to crucify Him and torture him.  and continues to make himself a prisoner in our tabernacles, vulnerable to such evils.

Another attempt to lessen the apparent problems with the N.O.

One could wonder, without being rash I suppose, if those who crucified our Lord were really "lesser men."

Don't accuse me of trying to promote the NO (or "lessen the apparent problems") when that was not my intent.

Well I hate to have to disagree with you there, but that is how it appears to me. People keep glossing over the baloney, making excuses, and basically looking through recolored glasses at the folly of the NO and its fruits.

Of course the men who crucified our Lord were lesser men.  He was God, they were not.  He is the New Adam, the savior of mankind, the spotless lamb and they were cruel sinners.

I was making the point that I would consider those who treat what they perceive to be the blood of Christ in such a slipshod manner to be lesser men than those who crucified our Lord. Those at His passion were pagans or followers of the corrupt Sanhedrin. Two thousand years have passed and if you profess to be a Catholic you should really know better. Read Matthew 27. 54, "Now the centurion and they that were with him watching Jesus, having seen the earthquake, and the things that were done, were sore afraid, saying: Indeed this was the Son of God." Real belief in the Real Presence would not allow or encourage such practices.

I am not saying that what happened with the liturgical abuses and plastic cups was any less abhorrent and abusive as it is.  But it doesn't stop Him from sacramentally being there as He was on the Cross.  I am just stating what the reality is.  He truly was in those cups.  It does speak to the humility of Our Lord.  People in the media love to harp on about the humility of Pope Francis, humility, humility, humility.  It is better to reflect on how much our Lord humbles Himself.  He deserves so much better, in the past we have given Him better, yet He endures this. 
My take on the present crisis in the Church aside, I can somewhat agree with the last part of this statement (It is better... yet he endures this.) I dare to add, not only does our Lord endure this"second Passion" of the horrid disfigurement of His Church, He continues to tolerate our own personal failings, which in my case, are numerous.
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#34
It is not as much a second passion, as much as it is a continuing, never ending Passion that stands outside of time.

When I said that Our Lord was crucified by lesser men, I was not saying they were lesser men than those who carry Him around in plastic cups, I meant that Christ humbled Himself to be killed by men who were lesser than Him. 

Who knows if these people believed in the Real Presence?  I have no idea.  I think the sick thing is that a lot of people actually do believe that Our Lord is present in the Blessed Sacrament and yet desecrate it anyway, as in the case of satanic black masses. 
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#35
Not to have the final word, but I must add that personally I don't believe that our Lord is truly present on the altars of modern churches, so I am not troubled by the plastic cups... but what troubles me is those who think that that wine is indeed the Precious Blood of the Savior.

I tread on thin ice regarding forum rules, thus I will refrain from further comment on this topic. The shepherd is struck and the sheep are scattered. Pray for removal of this cross! Oh, so oppressive!
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#36
(08-09-2013, 09:55 PM)OldMan Wrote: Not to have the final word, but I must add that personally I don't believe that our Lord is truly present on the altars of modern churches, so I am not troubled by the plastic cups... but what troubles me is those who think that that wine is indeed the Precious Blood of the Savior.

I tread on thin ice regarding forum rules, thus I will refrain from further comment on this topic. The shepherd is struck and the sheep are scattered. Pray for removal of this cross! Oh, so oppressive!

You seemed pretty troubled by the plastic cups before.
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#37
(08-10-2013, 01:07 AM)Chestertonian Wrote:
(08-09-2013, 09:55 PM)OldMan Wrote: Not to have the final word, but I must add that personally I don't believe that our Lord is truly present on the altars of modern churches, so I am not troubled by the plastic cups... but what troubles me is those who think that that wine is indeed the Precious Blood of the Savior.

I tread on thin ice regarding forum rules, thus I will refrain from further comment on this topic. The shepherd is struck and the sheep are scattered. Pray for removal of this cross! Oh, so oppressive!

You seemed pretty troubled by the plastic cups before.

Since I live with someone who tends to think the way that Old Man does I think I understand it.  I think they go back and forth regarding the Real Presence post Vatican II.  They may say one thing, but in reality it 's a doubt.  I don't think anyone is really sure of anything these days (well, at least those who agree that there is a crisis in the Church anyway). We're all trying to make sense of things and in doing so, we get angry, we make bitter-like statements, we take it out on each other, we seem to contradict ourselves, and so on.


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#38
(08-10-2013, 07:34 AM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-10-2013, 01:07 AM)Chestertonian Wrote:
(08-09-2013, 09:55 PM)OldMan Wrote: Not to have the final word, but I must add that personally I don't believe that our Lord is truly present on the altars of modern churches, so I am not troubled by the plastic cups... but what troubles me is those who think that that wine is indeed the Precious Blood of the Savior.

I tread on thin ice regarding forum rules, thus I will refrain from further comment on this topic. The shepherd is struck and the sheep are scattered. Pray for removal of this cross! Oh, so oppressive!

You seemed pretty troubled by the plastic cups before.

Since I live with someone who tends to think the way that Old Man does I think I understand it.  I think they go back and forth regarding the Real Presence post Vatican II.  They may say one thing, but in reality it 's a doubt.  I don't think anyone is really sure of anything these days (well, at least those who agree that there is a crisis in the Church anyway). We're all trying to make sense of things and in doing so, we get angry, we make bitter-like statements, we take it out on each other, we seem to contradict ourselves, and so on.

Yeah, it's just not fun being on the receiving end and being accused of being a progressive Novus Ordo lover simply because he thinks that this type of liturgical abuse is illicit but does not invalidate the sacrament.
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#39
Has anyone determined if the photos were real or fake? It seems odd that only two pictures of plastic cups surfaced in the media.
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#40
(08-10-2013, 11:14 AM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: Has anyone determined if the photos were real or fake? It seems odd that only two pictures of plastic cups surfaced in the media.

There are a few more pictures here: http://blog.messainlatino.it/2013/08/pis...-2013.html
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