Mysterious priest performs miracle at site of Mercedes crash
#41
(08-09-2013, 09:13 PM)devoutchristian Wrote:
(08-09-2013, 08:43 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: Do you have a cite?

For the fact that a sacrament per se cannot be validly performed without the minister actually performing a physical action?

(08-09-2013, 08:43 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: it flies in the face of many arguments in favour of the strict interpretation of EENS

Why is that a problem? The "strict interpretation" was condemned by Pope Pius XII.

Without getting into the EENS question, it seems to me that your original point has two problems. 1) What 'physical action' is performed by the ministers of Matrimony, other than speech? And 2) are you seriously saying that God could not empower an Angel or a Saint sent from Heaven to perform the physical act of Anointing?
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#42
Didn't the Angel at Fatima, suspend the Ciborium in mid air, kneel and adore, then distribute Communion to the three children ?

tim
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#43
(08-09-2013, 09:23 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: What 'physical action' is performed by the ministers of Matrimony, other than speech?

Without getting into the fact that speaking is a physical action, Anointing of the Sick most certainly does require a physical action.

(08-09-2013, 09:23 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: are you seriously saying that God could not empower an Angel or a Saint sent from Heaven to perform the physical act of Anointing?

He certainly could, but revelation states that only living humans have actual physical bodies with which to perform physical actions. When angels appear they do not possess real physical bodies but only the appearance of bodies.
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#44
(08-09-2013, 09:33 PM)Tim Wrote: Didn't the Angel at Fatima, suspend the Ciborium in mid air, kneel and adore, then distribute Communion to the three children ?

tim

I wouldn't know. Even if true, that is an entirely different matter, as the minister (in the sacramental sense of that word) of the Eucharist is the priest who consecrates it, not the person who administers it (thus why even self-communication is not invalid).
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#45
(08-09-2013, 09:40 PM)devoutchristian Wrote:
(08-09-2013, 09:33 PM)Tim Wrote: Didn't the Angel at Fatima, suspend the Ciborium in mid air, kneel and adore, then distribute Communion to the three children ?

tim

I wouldn't know. Even if true, that is an entirely different matter, as the minister (in the sacramental sense of that word) of the Eucharist is the priest who consecrates it, not the person who administers it (thus why even self-communication is not invalid).

So you're saying that even if the Angel did distribute Communion (a 'physical act'), a Saint sent from Heaven, who was a Priest forever after the Order of Melchizedek on Earth could not anoint, because it's a 'physical act'?
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#46
(08-09-2013, 09:33 PM)Tim Wrote: Didn't the Angel at Fatima, suspend the Ciborium in mid air, kneel and adore, then distribute Communion to the three children ?

tim

Yep, but ladies in purple stretch pants distribute "Communion" too. And they think it's ok.. Remember the angel was not confecting the sacrament at Fatima only distributing Communion. An angel could not administer extreme unction or remit sin as they are not ordained priests. I think we will eventually find out who this person was. Can't wait.
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#47
(08-09-2013, 09:38 PM)devoutchristian Wrote:
(08-09-2013, 09:23 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: What 'physical action' is performed by the ministers of Matrimony, other than speech?

Without getting into the fact that speaking is a physical action, Anointing of the Sick most certainly does require a physical action.

(08-09-2013, 09:23 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: are you seriously saying that God could not empower an Angel or a Saint sent from Heaven to perform the physical act of Anointing?

He certainly could, but revelation states that only living humans have actual physical bodies with which to perform physical actions. When angels appear they do not possess real physical bodies but only the appearance of bodies.

So you are saying that, (A) 'according to revelation', the Archangel Gabriel could not possibly have spoken the words, 'Hail full of Grace'? And (B) that Blessed Jacinta, Blessed Francisco, and Sister Lucia were either lying or hallucinating despite Holy Church saying that their visions are worthy of belief?
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#48
(08-09-2013, 09:47 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(08-09-2013, 09:40 PM)devoutchristian Wrote:
(08-09-2013, 09:33 PM)Tim Wrote: Didn't the Angel at Fatima, suspend the Ciborium in mid air, kneel and adore, then distribute Communion to the three children ?

tim

I wouldn't know. Even if true, that is an entirely different matter, as the minister (in the sacramental sense of that word) of the Eucharist is the priest who consecrates it, not the person who administers it (thus why even self-communication is not invalid).

So you're saying that even if the Angel did distribute Communion (a 'physical act'), a Saint sent from Heaven, who was a Priest forever after the Order of Melchizedek on Earth could not anoint, because it's a 'physical act'?

The difference is that only one of the acts is the performing of a sacrament. The sacrament had already occurred in the other case.
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#49
(08-09-2013, 10:35 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(08-09-2013, 09:38 PM)devoutchristian Wrote:
(08-09-2013, 09:23 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: What 'physical action' is performed by the ministers of Matrimony, other than speech?

Without getting into the fact that speaking is a physical action, Anointing of the Sick most certainly does require a physical action.

(08-09-2013, 09:23 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: are you seriously saying that God could not empower an Angel or a Saint sent from Heaven to perform the physical act of Anointing?

He certainly could, but revelation states that only living humans have actual physical bodies with which to perform physical actions. When angels appear they do not possess real physical bodies but only the appearance of bodies.

So you are saying that, (A) 'according to revelation', the Archangel Gabriel could not possibly have spoken the words, 'Hail full of Grace'? And (B) that Blessed Jacinta, Blessed Francisco, and Sister Lucia were either lying or hallucinating despite Holy Church saying that their visions are worthy of belief?

Strawman.
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#50
(08-09-2013, 10:39 PM)devoutchristian Wrote: Strawman.

Straw man ??? You have stated in answer to my question regarding Matrimony that speech is a physical act. You have stated that, 'revelation states that only living humans have actual physical bodies with which to perform physical actions. When angels appear they do not possess real physical bodies but only the appearance of bodies.' Ergo, by your statements, St Gabriel could not possibly have pronounced the words 'Hail full of Grace'.
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