"Identity Politics" and "Gang-banging" in Catholicism

[Tim]

One question:  did we have these divisions before Vatican II?  Because although a simplistic response, I do believe that the division in our Church stems from Vatican II.

In the post above this one of yours I wrote how it was similar before Vatican II.

If I understood that post, then you are saying there were similarities, but it's much worse now. 

Yes that is what I'm saying. All parishes had families which wouldn't allow their children near some others.They were absurd. You've got to understand this Pope Paul VI was a liberal, but he wrote Humane Vitae and that was no mistake.

The marketing of Enovid-E was what split the Church and it was gradual. Fr. Mullady of EWTN has said over and over when he teaches Cana to couples he has to take some aside and tell them that cohabitation and premarital sex prevent their marriage, and they must split, confess, and be chaste, or no marriage. Both NCR's have written that 75% of active Catholics contracept with whatever devices they fancy. We also abort at the same rate as the national average.

My family along with most of the Northern Italians which came to Chicago before 1900 were Republicans, and most Catholics were Democrats. When contraception and abortion were fully embraced by the Democrats many never flinched. Many evolved to Democrats first and catholic with a small c

.When we moved to a multicultural Parish we became "different". Forget that my family started here 15 years after the Civil War and thought Lincoln was a hero, we were not nice and charitable. Sound familiar ??

On the flip side the Republicans have morphed into Zionist Christians and have no place for Catholics. Protestants like most Catholics do not see the pill as evil. W the most profile President couldn't bother to come down and speak to the Profile March, because he'd be aligned with the anti-contraception Catholics.

The Church is in the middle of this milieu and people identify with these groups, and there are many more, before they identify as Catholics. No one equates Usury which both parties support and thrive on as being as  evil as abortion. Both Sins cry out to God for vengeance. Because their party, that they identify with needs Usury, so like premarital sex and contraceptives wink wink it's all good.

tim

[Miriam_M]

Perhaps the answer is to have a website that requires membership.  That might bring in less members, but it would allow those members wiling to pay the price to discuss topics that might offend advertisers.

I agree with this.  It also tends to discourage forum trolling (one "side" or faction playing both sides against the middle, and deliberately invading a forum they actually have no use for, so as to sabotage; certainly this has happened on most such discussion forums).

People genuinely interested in discussion and content will be willing to pay the price.  Yes, excludes those unable to pay but sincere.  Unfortunately, there are probably fewer of that category than those who are malevolent or disrespectful.  (My experience, anyway. YMMV)

[divinesilence80]

I think the problem is people have finite brains and like to condense information to fit into them at the cost of accuracy. Most people haven't got a clue what went on before, during, or after Victorian days. History is often so badly distorted or given a revisionist account that the wisdom is lost. We obsess about sex WAYYYYY to much and according to Dante's Inferno is the least severe offense to be punished in Hell. Dante was no moral or Church authority but his writing did reflect the attitude of the day. Also, people rarely think ahead and demonstrate forethought. They are too caught up in the details of the moment that are usually irrelevant to the big picture. They expend great mental energy holding their intellectual mind afloat that they cut corners on the hard things. A lot of the "good ol days" some trads talk about never existed! Those days are nothing more than a fantasy that will never happen. We need to take the time to smell the roses and think about what really matters in this life. This is what retreats used to be for. Alas though, the retreat houses are often empty.