Pope Francis will consecrate the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary
(08-15-2013, 12:49 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(08-13-2013, 03:14 PM)Whitey Wrote: Fr Hardon also mentioned the JPII '84 Consecration and he believed it was an act of decisiveness which left no doubt whether the Consecration of Russia had been done. The Berlin Wall "came down" in 1989.

I'm now convinced the consecration has been done.

Whitey, in all seriousness, how could the Consecration of Russia have been done when the word 'Russia" was not even mentioned in the Act of Consecration? Pope John Paul II asked that the Act be read in all Churches on the day he was doing it. I was present in my parish church when it was read. There was not only no mention of Russia in the Act, there was nothing that could be construed as even alluding to Russia in the official Act as read. It is true that His Holiness ad libbed a line in which he mentioned 'those people who await Our consecration to you'. Not, 'who have been waiting' as if he was actually doing it, but 'await' as in for an act in the future. Even if he had adlibbed, 'and specifically the people of Russia', it would not have been in union with the bishops because they didn't read the ad lib.

I, too, greatly admire and respect Fr Hardon, but on this point, I'm afraid logic prevents me from accepting his opinion.














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so today we consecrate and we dedicate in a very special manner all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart

Those words are from the Pope Pius XII consecration.

Why is everyone here ignoring this ?
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(08-15-2013, 01:02 AM)Whitey Wrote: so today we consecrate and we dedicate in a very special manner all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart

Those words are from the Pope Pius XII consecration.

Why is everyone here ignoring this ?

Fair question.  My question in return would be in regards to whether or not all Bishops joined the Holy Father in his consecration of Russia.  If not, then it would not seem to satisfy Our Ladys' request.  If so, then I would suggest it has indeed been done. 
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he did say "we"  :shrug:
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His  Holiness was using the 'papal plural'. The consecration was made in the context of an Apostolic Letter with no mention, whatsoever, of participation by the world's bishops. Again, I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that it's been done.
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Pope Pius XII—who made a special mention of Russia, which would grant, according to Our Lady of Fatima in a later apparition to Sr. Lucia, some peace to the world, as WWII did end right after—and Pope John Paul II have already consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart. However, Our Lady of Fatima requests a consecration of Russia alone in order for a full period of peace to arise.

See "Appendix II: The Consecration of Russia is Not Accomplished" of The True Story of Fatima.
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(08-15-2013, 01:19 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: His  Holiness was using the 'papal plural'.

That seems to be the case to me as well.  He appeared to have been using the Majestic Plural, often referred to as the "Royal We".
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(08-15-2013, 01:02 AM)Whitey Wrote: so today we consecrate and we dedicate in a very special manner all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart

Those words are from the Pope Pius XII consecration.
That was the "special mention" during his world consecration. Also, it says "peoples of Russia," not "Russia" herself.
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(08-15-2013, 01:25 AM)Geremia Wrote:
(08-15-2013, 01:02 AM)Whitey Wrote: so today we consecrate and we dedicate in a very special manner all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart

Those words are from the Pope Pius XII consecration.
That was the "special mention" during his world consecration. Also, it says "peoples of Russia," not "Russia" herself.

Apostolic Letter Carissimis Russiae Populis (1952) On the Immaculate Heart and the People of Russia, Pius XII (from the EWTN website) Wrote:In order that Our and your prayers be more readily answered, and to give you an especial attestation of Our particular affection, therefore, just as not many years ago We consecrated the entire world to the Immaculate Heart of the Virgin Mother of God, in a most special way, so now We dedicate and consecrate all the peoples of Russia to that same Immaculate Heart...

But, as I pointed out, there was no participation by the world's bishops.
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Well, even if the pope ordered all bishops to join him at a specific time to do it, the sedes will say it hasn't been done because the pope aint a pope. Other trads will say the pope was ordained under the new rite, so it might not have been done. Scattered among the rest will be trads who will want proof each individual bishop joined in.

As +Williamson would say,

Kyrie eleison
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(08-15-2013, 02:43 AM)Whitey Wrote: Well, even if the pope ordered all bishops to join him at a specific time to do it, the sedes will say it hasn't been done because the pope aint a pope. Other trads will say the pope was ordained under the new rite, so it might not have been done. Scattered among the rest will be trads who will want proof each individual bishop joined in.

As +Williamson would say,

Kyrie eleison

All quite probably true, none of which negates the fact that no Pope has consecrated either Russia or the peoples of Russia while ordering/instructing/or even asking the Bishops of the world to do it with him, as Our Lady requested.
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