Pope Francis will consecrate the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary
#51
(08-13-2013, 02:58 PM)guacamole Wrote: no, i don't mean at all to make fun of other people's religions!  consecrationalists are very close to us in their faith and can even be called catholics.  that's good enough for me.  of course, i don't share their belief that the alleged apparitions of the virgin mary at fatima, and the words spoken there, are on par with revelation and must be carried out.  the teaching of catholicism, as opposed to consecrationalism, is that revelation closed with the death of the last apostle and that everything -- everything -- necessary for salvation was revealed by then.

You're so right!  So when the Blessed Virgin Mary appears within the last 100 years with a detailed message containing specific requests, God confirms that appearance and message with arguably the greatest public miracle since the Ressurection (a miracle reported by secular news organizations opposed to the Faith), and the Church (the guardian of everything necessary for salvation) tells us that the BVM's appearance and message is worthy of belief, we are safe to ignore it.  Good call!
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#52
(08-13-2013, 03:04 PM)Basilios Wrote: Worthy of belief but not true? Come on!

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#53
(08-13-2013, 03:25 PM)jbd Wrote: God confirms that appearance and message with arguably the greatest public miracle since the Ressurection

it had many characteristics of a ufo event.  in my opinion, it was preternatural and not of god.  quite serious about that.

read daimonic reality by patrick harpur, anything by jacques vallee, etc.

i do not mix my catholic faith with these things.  very dangerous.

we are indeed "safe to ignore it."  that's catholic teaching.  consecrationalists and other fatimists -- as well as medjugorje nuts -- need to deal with it.
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#54
As time goes by the Miracle of the Sun seems less and less significant and so Fatima becomes a thing of quaint personal belief.  We are ridiculed and dismissed by the passive aggressive behavior of  guacamole. Yet the Miracle of the Sun is an actual happening and it was recorded by secularists, masons, and commies. It warned of the errors of russia, the coming second world war, mostly because women couldn't keep their knickers on and men their pants. So, the third secret was to be released in 1960 by the Bishops of Portugal, and in their complete fear they kicked it upstairs to Pope John XXIII. Since then we have seen massive Apostasy as St. Paul told us. At Akita Japan Our Lady said the Cardinals will oppose Cardinals, and Bishops oppose Bishops, and if we don't straighten out and keep our knickers and pants on Fire will come from the sky. One part of Our Lady's warnings that we have has still not been fulfilled and that is the annihilation of certain nations, perhaps that's a good enough reason to obey. Bl. Pope John Paul II said with his own lips it was never done. Perhaps his coming canonization will have his reappearance on earth at the eleventh hour before time is gone and warning the Pope and Bishops and us to do it.

tim
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#55
(08-13-2013, 03:34 PM)Tim Wrote: Yet the Miracle of the Sun is an actual happening and it was recorded by secularists, masons, and commies.

i am sure that it happened.  and i believe that it was a preternatural event.

read about egregores and the phenomena described in daimonic reality.  to me, it all fits.  i will not base my faith life on this stuff.  won't do it.

that's your own religion, tim.  it's not mine.

i follow sober benedictine spirituality and that contained in columba marmion's writings, especially christ, the life of the soul.  i'm also guided by the warnings of the fathers of the eastern church when it comes to phenomena like this.
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#56
Tim, when did JPII say it was never done ? It seems odd a pope would say that and then not get it done. Did he say that before his '84 consecration ?
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#57
(08-13-2013, 01:06 PM)Beardly Wrote: I kind of want to see what Tim's take is on this whole thing. He knows a lot about Fatima.

I seem to remember that all that is required is that the pope tells all the other bishops to do the consecration with him. If they do not actually follow through, that is their problem, but the consecration still happens (or do at least some of the bishops at least have to go along? I can't remember).

Based on this, I think that it could work if, at the last minute, he tells the bishops "Oh by the way, I'm consecrating Russia tomorrow," and tells them to do it also.

The way I see it, he has to know that the world has already been consecrated before. It does not seem that he thinks that those past consecrations fulfilled the prophecy, because he is deciding to do it again. I doubt that he is going to do the same thing over.

If the Pope orders them to do it, he doesn't even need to threaten in any way. They by their inactions are separated from the Church and the Chair of Peter. As for the prayer of Consecration he could Consecrate the whole world and say especially Russia for which you've been waiting. That's all, he need not make it a huge deal.

This fits exactly with the homily which Bl. Pope John Paul II delivered at Fatima in 2000, where he deviated from the text prepared by the Cardinals and added we are
in the time of Apocalypse 12;3,4.

This is where the Red Dragon or Lucifer drags a third of the clerics from the Church, either through schism before the Consecration, or by not complying. Bl. Pope John Paul II was prophesying as only a Pontiff or the Cohen of Judah can, God put those words on his lips.

As the time runs away and I see how hard people's hearts are against this Consecration, and the diabolical disorientation on so many, and good third of people that are truly possessed and obsessed by the devil without even understanding what they are doing, I cringe at how many will go to hell very soon.

I am terrified of fire right here on earth, it's irrational fear, but perhaps it's a special message from the Holy Ghost making me aware of the terrible consequences coming for so many of my friends and acquaintances. I shudder and shiver.

Rosaries gang, and please stop fighting unless it's necessary. if the Chastisement comes it'll be from the wicked in the word first and probably a total war, then after the war it'll be God's wrath as Fire from the sky, but during that war the conservatives and the trads will be the ones in the fox holes together.

tim

tim

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#58
Tim, you are a great guy, and I love your insight. But here, what you are saying is the kind of thing that turns people away. How would you or could you know the content of the Third Secret, and all the business of the dragon and all that?

And how can a revelation of the Blessed Virgin Mary result in a man of faith as yourself afraid of fire falling from heaven any day now? I don't get this. I get that there are 2 arguments about this topic, one, that JPII performed a consecration that was accepted by Our Lady, however imperfectly it was worded. The other, that it was not done, period. But surely, if you are living the Catholic life, and if on top of it all, you see yourself as one of the few who understand and appreciate the "true" version of Our Lady' Fatima intervention, you of all people should not be living in fear but in peace. And whether your side is right or wrong, you will be dead soon enough, as will I. No amount of consecrations, non-consecrations, apparitions, or secrets can deflect the implacable course of life: there is life of faith, death, judgment, and heaven for you.

For what it's worth and in the interests of disclosure, I LOVE the rosary. I pray 15 decades per day minimum. I LOVE Our Lady, and I love that she appeared to those saints in Fatima, and I believe all of the miracles, and I believe she gave clear orders for a consecration to be carried out, and I am certain that neither Pius XII, John XXIII, nor JPI carried it out. My understanding was that it was to be carried out before 1960. Since we didn't, we were screwed, and the spiritual catastrophe of the second half of the 20th century is worse than any astrological phenomena that could possibly occur in the future. 3 days of darkness would be scary, but fear can lead a man to repent. 50 years of heresy, schism, and apostasy are infinitely worse. After that, I do not know. I have read both sides, and the one I find more credible is the one in which JPII performed an imperfect consecration that Our Lady accepted. It was after this consecration that changes came to Russia, positive changes, as we see continuing even to this day. Still, if I think it more credible, it is subjective. I have no argument for it, and no dog in that fight, because in the end I will not be judged on Fatima, but on the Faith.

Guacamole, I was with you until you hit the preternatural daimones thing. Sorry, I don't think I will  read up on it either, as I might get nightmares. (no joke)
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#59
(08-13-2013, 04:59 PM)maldon Wrote: Guacamole, I was with you until you hit the preternatural daimones thing. Sorry, I don't think I will  read up on it either, as I might get nightmares. (no joke)

a phenomenon is not veridical simply because it occurs.  in other words, it is not necessarily what it purports to be.  i have learned a great deal about egregores.  i think that many if not most so-called marian apparitions are egregores.

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#60
(08-13-2013, 03:40 PM)guacamole Wrote:
(08-13-2013, 03:34 PM)Tim Wrote: Yet the Miracle of the Sun is an actual happening and it was recorded by secularists, masons, and commies.

i am sure that it happened.  and i believe that it was a preternatural event.

read about egregores and the phenomena described in daimonic reality.  to me, it all fits.  i will not base my faith life on this stuff.  won't do it.

that's your own religion, tim.  it's not mine.

i follow sober benedictine spirituality and that contained in columba marmion's writings, especially christ, the life of the soul.  i'm also guided by the warnings of the fathers of the eastern church when it comes to phenomena like this.

So this means you can call it another religion, right ? And because you cite some book or other you are now empowered to rescind that it is worthy of belief, right ?
Fatima does not replace the faith it warns of impending punishment. It does not create the Fatima religion.  Right honey ! You seem to be a little out of sorts honey.

tim
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