I'm first finding this: Letter on Novus Ordo Missae
(08-19-2013, 10:36 AM)JoniCath Wrote:
(08-19-2013, 03:01 AM)Basilios Wrote: Aquinas also had a thing for order and h hierarchy. Your still little voice is below the big loud voice of the Catholic Church which says that you must attend any valid Catholic mass in order to fulfil your obligation. This ain't something you can dispense yourself from. If you think you can, you're inverting the hierarchy of order by placing your conscience above church law. St Thomas would not approve.

“People are obliged to follow their conscience in all circumstances and cannot be forced to act against it.”

Fr. Joseph Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) expressed the Church’s understanding of the primacy of conscience – an understanding which he eloquently expressed while serving as Chair of Dogmatic Theology at the University of Tübingen in 1968.

[size=10pt]“Above the pope as an expression of the binding claim of church authority,” writes Ratzinger, “stands one’s own conscience, which has to be obeyed first of all, if need be against the demands of church authority.”[/size]

This has been Catholic teaching forever. The fact that people on Fisheaters do NOT know that\, is troubling.

Fortunately I am not one of those Fishies.

Where in that quote does Ratzinger claim that the binding authority of Church doctrine is above ones conscience? He only says that your conscience is above the pope as an expression of the binding claim of church authority.

Surely you know that the above must be taken in context within a bigger picture?

What if I told you my conscience was okay with contracepting? Or aborting? Or, say, what if my conscience was okay with thinking that the 1962 Mass wasn't valid and it doesn't fulfill ones obligation?

You would rightly tell me my conscience is, in these circumstances, absolutely rotten and not working properly. It's disordered. It has lost it's place within the hierarchical order.

What if Jesus Christ came down (truly, not a false vision) and ordered me to do something, like, say, go to a Novus Ordo Mass to fulfil my obligation. What if I said "Na sorry about that but my conscience objects!". Is that good and proper? But doesn't the Church speak for Christ in these matters (ya know, binding and loosing etc)?

I think it's not me that has it backwards, Joni, it's you. I of course acknowledge and affirm the teachings on obeying ones conscience. But it must operate witihn proper order. And dispensing yourself from Mass because you read the Ottaviani intervention or because you subjectively judge that this Mass brought down the Church isn't your conscience working within proper order.

There are Catholic Africans being murdered every single day in Somalia, Egypt and the rest of that region. Those people would, and do, die just to attend the Mass. And here we have people dispensing themselves? If I didn't think it were such a bad idea I wouldn't push it but I think this is vitally important. I don't want you or anybody else to pay for it on judgement day. Especially not with these holy martyrs sitting and telling you how much they suffered just to get to one of those types of Masses you decided on your own whim wasn't good enough.

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Re: I'm first finding this: Letter on Novus Ordo Missae - by Basilios - 08-19-2013, 01:19 PM

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