I'm first finding this: Letter on Novus Ordo Missae
#77
(08-19-2013, 03:33 PM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-19-2013, 01:45 PM)Sant Anselmo Wrote:
(08-19-2013, 01:03 PM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-19-2013, 12:58 PM)Sant Anselmo Wrote:
(08-19-2013, 12:37 PM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-19-2013, 11:54 AM)Sant Anselmo Wrote:
(08-18-2013, 05:36 PM)2Vermont Wrote: You know, I'm not sure these are the only possibilities.  I haven't considered it long enough.  But I will say that I find it hard to believe that after seeing 50 years of the fruits of this mass that anyone can believe that it is of God. 

So millions of Catholics have been unknowingly worshiping mere bread and wine every time they have gone to Mass or Eucharistic Adoration for the past 50 years?  There is no reason to get upset about EMHC's or treating the Eucharist with disrespect because hey, it isn't Jesus anyway right?   Those pictures of the Eucharist being passed around in a plastic cup at WYD are ultimately meaningless since it wasn't a valid Mass in the first place.   

OK, so now your posts just seem rude with the sarcasm.

I was not being sarcastic at all.  Not even in the slightest.  If you do not believe in the validity of the Mass. then you must believe at least the first point, and you have no legitimate reason to be concerned about the second two. 

I have said that I question it.  You have gone out of your way to tell me off in so many words.  If that is not how you mean to come off then perhaps you could soften your comments to me.  Because you really aren't coming off anymore as someone who is concerned for me.

I get it.  You don't like the fact that I feel this way.  Yes, someone who used to never question it now questions it.  It is easier to get mad at that person than to get mad at why someone like me would even do such a thing.  Sounds like how I first reacted to my husband.  So, yeah, I get it.

I have gone out of my way to make actual points and debate your responses to them, rather than debating you as a person.  I have not gotten mad at you, or told you off.  I have proposed arguments, to which you then responded, and I then debated your responses to them.  I have done this through use of a classical "if - then" logic statement.  I have repeatedly said that "in order to believe X, you must also believe Y".  The only person bringing emotion into the discussion between the two of us is you. 

In addition, whether you have gotten to the point that you disbelieve in the validity of the NO Mass is not the point that I have been making at all.  Rather, my point is that you should consider the intellectual leap that you must make in order for you to actually come to that belief.  For someone to believe that the Mass of Paul VI is invalid, they must also believe that millions of Catholics have not really been receiving the Eucharist since its promulgation.  There is no way around this.  The only way for you to come to the first conclusion is if you also accept the second.  If you cannot accept the second, then you cannot accept the first either as they must go together.  The "if-then" logic statement is a simple and effective way to help determine whether you really believe what you think you might. 

If you cannot accept the second conclusion intellectually, then it is probable that you do actually believe in the validity of the Mass, and are instead very frustrated that it is not as edifying as it could and should be, or perhaps just very disappointed with the manner that it is often celebrated. 

There is a stark difference between going after you as a person and going after the arguments made by you in the manner that I did.  I hope that this has helped to demonstrate the difference between that and I what I was trying to do. 


*EDIT - Confusing statement *

You have given me food for thought. I wish I could say without question that I was "just frustrated" because I think it's more than that at this point.

To be fair to guacamole, I did see your comment earlier and I also got a bad vibe from it.  Then again, I seem to have been misinterpreting your motives/comments throughout this thread so take that FWIW.  You would think I would know you better.  I am sorry for that.

No worries.  I have a tendency to be direct, which sometime comes across the wrong way.  Its tough to interpret intent sometimes through the written word.  Body language helps a great deal in that regard. 

God bless,
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Re: I'm first finding this: Letter on Novus Ordo Missae - by Sant Anselmo - 08-19-2013, 03:38 PM



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