I'm first finding this: Letter on Novus Ordo Missae
#83
(08-19-2013, 03:47 PM)Basilios Wrote:
(08-19-2013, 03:34 PM)St. Pius of Trent Wrote: Why is it so tough to imagine that there are invalid masses that have beem happening since the NO began?

Definitely not hard to imagine. The NO itself though isn't invalid. TLM's can be invalid too and have been before 1962 when the Priest was careless (though I am sure back then it was 1 in every 10000 Masses now it's probably 1 in every 1000).

Depends what you mean by "back then." In 1208, the problem of priests feigning the words of consecration became so problematic and well known that it had to be addressed by Innocent III (in the letter, De homine qui). About 175 years later it is addressed by God in St. Catherine's Dialogue as still a major problem—so much so that He says the faithful should add a condition “If this celerant said what he ought to say…” to the prayer “I truly believe you are Christ, the Son of the Living God…” said at the elevation.   In addition to that, He mentions the following problem:

The Dialogue (unabridged) of St. Catherine of Siena Wrote:So great is their foolishness that like blind men they give the office of the priesthood to idiots who scarcely know how to read and could never pray the Divine Office. Such men, who because of their ignorance do not know the sacramental words well, will often not consecrate.  So in their ignorance, they commit the same sin as those who maliciously do not consecrate, but only pretend to consecrate.  Therefore, superiors ought to choose men who are learned and virtuous, and who know and understand what they are saying. But these wretches do the opposite.  They are not concerned that a man be knowledgeable.  They are not concerned about his age.  In fact, it seems to give them pleasure to choose little boys instead of mature men.  They are not concerned either that they be holy and honorable in their living or that they know to what dignity they are coming or the great mystery that is theirs to celebrate. 
(this kind of stuff tends to be omitted in the abridged versions, probably so people didn’t get scrupulous about the validity of Masses)

One benefit of having a spoken aloud (and even vernacular) consecration is that everyone knows when the Mass is valid or not. 

(As an aside, a lot of people misunderstand the "intent" element of a valid sacrament and assume it means to explicit intend to bring about the actual effect of the sacrament, when it is a much lower bar: merely to intend to do what the Church does (even if one ignorant or wrong about what the Church actually does).  A priest, by using a rite approved by the Church, by definition intends to do what the Church does.  If, on his own authority, he changed the rite in a way not approved by the Church, coupled with the positive intention to exclude doing what the Church does, then this element would fail—he would be known to be intending something else.)
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Re: I'm first finding this: Letter on Novus Ordo Missae - by SaintSebastian - 08-19-2013, 04:51 PM



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