Pope Francis is shaking things up, and the Conservatives don't like it
#1
Pope Francis is Shaking up the Catholic Right... and the Conservatives are taking it out on the Traditionalists

http://arsorandi.blogspot.com/2013/08/po...holic.html

Quote:The Bergoglio Papacy is helping the "conservative" Vatican II Catholics realize they are a faction, making up just a small fraction of the Church, and not only that, but without the support of a reigning Pontiff saying and doing things that fit easily with their "conservative" ideology, they may find themselves members of a rather insignificant and marginalized faction.

The "conservatives" were never a majority among those who call themselves Catholic. Their parishes that utilize the “Benedictine Altar Arrangement” are few and far between—perhaps only one or two parishes in major cities are “Reform of the Reform” parishes, and only one or two parishes in whole dioceses have a side by side Ordinary Form and Extraordinary Form Mass schedule. On the other hand, there are countless parishes in every diocese with the same old banal liturgical music, armies of “Eucharistic Ministers” (the title, “Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion”, never became uniformly used anywhere), altar girls, and are replete with the same liturgical abuses. The vast majority of church-going Catholics are liberals who don’t have a problem with artificial contraception, who choose not to believe any number of dogmas, and roughly half don’t think it a serious problem that they vote for pro-abortion politicians.

Once you carve out the incredibly huge majority of Catholics who are progressive, liberal, or who simply don’t care, and then carve out the traditionalists, like you and I, the “conservative” Vatican II Catholics make up a rather small minority in the Church Militant. This fact has been obscured by the fact that they have had, what they thought, at least, was a privileged place under the last two pontificates. The "conservatives" used to have the bully pulpit, but now no more apparently. The Bergoglio Pontificate, with its apparent lack of support for the conservative faction, is revealing just how much of a minority these “conservatives” are. The pain of marginalization is starting to set in for those who haven’t completely buried their heads in the sand.

The progressives and liberals are hailing Pope Francis as their pope; traditionalists have always pointed out the danger that Bergoglio was a progressive; and the “conservative” Vatican II Catholics are becoming bitter as they realize they have lost their vaunted position in the Church Militant. As a result, the “conservatives” are lashing out against their perceived enemies, and that includes traditionalists.

All of my online traditional Catholic friends are telling me the same thing, and I've seen it first hand. It is open season on traditional Catholics. “Conservative” Vatican II Catholics have worked themselves up into a lather, and their angst is evident  in many corners, from the Catholic Answers witch hunt for “RadTrads” and “Angry-Trads”, to Facebook trolls who stalk traditional Catholic pages, baiting traditionalists, and then hurling accusations of “Ragebook” at the traditionalists who defend themselves. It used to be that the Ars Orandi Facebook page was occasionally trolled by liberals, but since the election of Pope Francis, all the trolls there are bitter “conservatives”.

Could this explain some of the actions taken by CA and others over the last couple of months?  Hard to say.  It seems a bit far fetched to me, but perhaps there is a grain or two of truth in there. 
Reply
#2
Generally speaking, I don't feel a hatred towards trads, but I do think that given enough time the "conservs" will join ranks with the trads.  Not too long ago I would have called myself a conservative, not a Trad. 

Added:  I wanted to add to the above that what I meant by "I don't feel" was  that I don't get a personal feeling of hatred towards me, a Trad.  Now if I go on CAF, that's a whole different ballgame.
However, when I see a parish priest needing special permission to have weekly TLM, then I start to go  :hmmm:
Reply
#3
I suppose I'm a Traditional Catholic meaning I only like to attend the Latin Mass or a NO Mass put on by the same Franciscans who have stated this:

"Note: In keeping with the dispositions of the Congregation for Religious, Holy Mass is offered at Mt. St. Francis in the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite. In view of the legitimate options offered in the General Instruction on the Roman Missal and other Church documents, Holy Mass is celebrated ad orientem, and often in the official language of the Church, which is Latin."

http://www.mtstfrancis.com/index.php/gen...r-schedule

LOL  :P
Reply
#4
good analysis.

it also demonstrates the hazards of relying so much on papal authority rather than on a shared responsibility for preserving tradition and orthdooxy (such as one finds in Orthodoxy and the Old Catholic Church (Union of Utrecht) -- at least  in theory).
Reply
#5
(08-17-2013, 01:21 PM)Sant Anselmo Wrote: Pope Francis is Shaking up the Catholic Right... and the Conservatives are taking it out on the Traditionalists

http://arsorandi.blogspot.com/2013/08/po...holic.html

Quote:The progressives and liberals are hailing Pope Francis as their pope; traditionalists have always pointed out the danger that Bergoglio was a progressive; and the “conservative” Vatican II Catholics are becoming bitter as they realize they have lost their vaunted position in the Church Militant. As a result, the “conservatives” are lashing out against their perceived enemies, and that includes traditionalists.[/i]

Could this explain some of the actions taken by CA and others over the last couple of months?  Hard to say.  It seems a bit far fetched to me, but perhaps there is a grain or two of truth in there. 

A good read and an interesting perspective. As secular society deteriorates at an exponential level, and with common sense in full retreat; the church as a whole should only expect greater attacks from liberal media outlets, powerful lobby's, and aggressive new hate themed legislation. As a result, the confusion within the whole church will only accelerate; to the benefit of liberals and progressives within the church. The conservative V11 supporters had better get used to this new apologist role, cause I don't see them coming into the trad camp.
Reply
#6
(08-17-2013, 02:21 PM)The Tax Collector Wrote:
(08-17-2013, 01:21 PM)Sant Anselmo Wrote: Pope Francis is Shaking up the Catholic Right... and the Conservatives are taking it out on the Traditionalists

http://arsorandi.blogspot.com/2013/08/po...holic.html

Quote:The progressives and liberals are hailing Pope Francis as their pope; traditionalists have always pointed out the danger that Bergoglio was a progressive; and the “conservative” Vatican II Catholics are becoming bitter as they realize they have lost their vaunted position in the Church Militant. As a result, the “conservatives” are lashing out against their perceived enemies, and that includes traditionalists.[/i]

Could this explain some of the actions taken by CA and others over the last couple of months?  Hard to say.  It seems a bit far fetched to me, but perhaps there is a grain or two of truth in there. 

A good read and an interesting perspective. As secular society deteriorates at an exponential level, and with common sense in full retreat; the church as a whole should only expect greater attacks from liberal media outlets, powerful lobby's, and aggressive new hate themed legislation. As a result, the confusion within the whole church will only accelerate; to the benefit of liberals and progressives within the church. The conservative V11 supporters had better get used to this new apologist role, cause I don't see them coming into the trad camp.

See, I think if they are educated, they WILL join the trad camp.
Reply
#7
(08-17-2013, 02:04 PM)2Vermont Wrote: Generally speaking, I don't feel a hatred towards trads, but I do think that given enough time the "conservs" will join ranks with the trads.  Not too long ago I would have called myself a conservative, not a Trad. 
2Vermont. As you educated yourself in tradition, you have come to see reason and a logical conclusion.  The Vll faction are well aware of the traditional arguements and reject them "with extreme prejudice". Just my opinion.
Reply
#8
(08-17-2013, 02:31 PM)The Tax Collector Wrote:
(08-17-2013, 02:04 PM)2Vermont Wrote: Generally speaking, I don't feel a hatred towards trads, but I do think that given enough time the "conservs" will join ranks with the trads.  Not too long ago I would have called myself a conservative, not a Trad. 
2Vermont. As you educated yourself in tradition, you have come to see reason and a logical conclusion.  The Vll faction are well aware of the traditional arguements and reject them "with extreme prejudice". Just my opinion.

Maybe you're right.

::sigh::
Reply
#9
I suspect this pontificat, if it keeps going in the current trajectory, is going to force conservatives to fish or cut bait. That is, they either move to the traditionalist camp (where they should have been all along) or slide further left. They're going to have to eat their words and start singing the praises of women deacons and all sorts of other things they used to think was wrong and ''never gonna happen.''
The foot washing thing on Holy Thursday was just a tiny glimpse of what is to come.

The sooner the better I say. To the modernists I feel like saying what Our Lord said to Judas...''What you're going to do, do quickly.'' (Something like that anyway). Lets get this show on the road already.
Reply
#10
(08-17-2013, 02:51 PM)DustinsDad Wrote: I suspect this pontificat, if it keeps going in the current trajectory, is going to force conservatives to fish or cut bait. That is, they either move to the traditionalist camp (where they should have been all along) or slide further left. They're going to have to eat their words and start singing the praises of women deacons and all sorts of other things they used to think was wrong and ''never gonna happen.''
The foot washing thing on Holy Thursday was just a tiny glimpse of what is to come.

The sooner the better I say. To the modernists I few like saying what Our Lord said to Judas...''What you're going to do, do quickly.'' (Something like that anyway). Lets get this show on the road already.

Ha, yes let's. 
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)