Pope Francis is shaking things up, and the Conservatives don't like it
#11
Good article, spot on.

As far as CA and the recent "trad attack mode", I really have to think it's the thread here.
Nearly 83,000 views. http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...454.0.html

A search of "traditional Catholic forum", or "traditional Catholic message board" via google produces a list where CathInfo and FishEaters top the hits list. So a lot of folks are seeing the thread here. And, a lot of folks don't like it.

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#12
(08-17-2013, 03:03 PM)Whitey Wrote: A search of "traditional Catholic forum", or "traditional Catholic message board" via google produces a list where CathInfo and FishEaters top the hits list.

it's frightening to think that someone investigating traditional catholicism would read cathinfo first.  just horrible. seriously.
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#13
(08-17-2013, 03:27 PM)guacamole Wrote:
(08-17-2013, 03:03 PM)Whitey Wrote: A search of "traditional Catholic forum", or "traditional Catholic message board" via google produces a list where CathInfo and FishEaters top the hits list.

it's frightening to think that someone investigating traditional catholicism would read cathinfo first.  just horrible. seriously.

lulz. They'd think it's all about hatin' Jews and calling Pope Francis 'Bergoglio'.

But to be honest when I first read FishEaters I was horrified. Mind you, I was a radical conservative (devotee of CAF) and at that time there were still some, um, rather unsavoury members who have since been sent to band camp.
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#14
(08-17-2013, 03:03 PM)Whitey Wrote: As far as CA and the recent "trad attack mode", I really have to think it's the thread here.
Nearly 83,000 views. http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...454.0.html

A search of "traditional Catholic forum", or "traditional Catholic message board" via google produces a list where CathInfo and FishEaters top the hits list. So a lot of folks are seeing the thread here. And, a lot of folks don't like it.

Ah, schadenfreude.  :grin:
Also known, as Just Desserts, or, Lying in the Bed that one has made, Reaping what you have Sewn, etc.
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#15
(08-17-2013, 03:35 PM)Miriam_M Wrote: Reaping what you have Sewn, etc.

well, you can rip what you have sewn, but you reap what you have sown.

please don't hate me.  :LOL:
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#16
What the traditionalists need to do imo, the religious orders/clergy as well as the laity, is unite. What divides sedes, independents, SSPX, and the rest really isn't that much.

For example, the sedes don't recognize the pope as a true pope. The rest of the true trads don't think he's orthodox, so if one doesn't accept everything he says or does, then he's not really accepted as pope is he ? If trads would admit this, then the wall between sedes and other trads crumbles.

Imagine if all trad groups were to unite. Think we are seen as a threat to modernist Rome right now ? I'm not sure what Rome thinks, but a united traditional Church Militant would certainly get their attention.

What if we did unite and formal schism is declared by Rome ? So what ? Schism from what ? A "holy see" that condones women wearing mini skirts receiving Communion ? They certainly do condone it. It's been going on so long in so many parishes, what other conclusion can we arrive at ? A bishop who truly believes in the Real Presence doesn't allow it.

Let's face it. It's all about money at this point. Sure the Catholic charities do much good. Perhaps more good than any other religious organization. There are many genuinely loving members of NO parishes. But all of the good we can see does not make the appalling sacrileges and scandals ok. And that greedy nut that got caught smuggling a ton of money ; what a perfect picture of what newchurch is truly all about  :LOL:

How about the conditions prescribed for the use of EMHC ? Flat out ignored in most parishes that use them. I can point to a parish that is very orthodox for an NO parish, but still, even with weekday Mass having 40 in attendance, as many as 3 EMHC's may be used. That simply can't be justified, especially considering I'm speaking of a Parish with at least 3-4 friars in the Priory at all times.

I'm sorry neo cats, but don't say the word "obedience" to me as long as guidelines/rules/protocol/the GIRM/rubrics etc. are ignored. If I want to engage in a crap shoot, I'll go shoot craps, not go to Mass.

Trads should unite. It's that simple. Check the egos at the door, clergy and laity alike. Forget the past, all of it. Fr Cekada, Bishop Williamson, Fr Pfeiffer, and the rest, fess up. Why did you become a priest ? To save souls ? Well, let's do it TOGETHER.

Trads have bishops. Trads have Apostolic Succession. Trads are orthodox and have Tradition to embrace.

I think it's time to realize that there is in fact a new religion and a non-Roman Catholic Church posing as one in the Vatican. There are some holy clergy there, but the problem is, they are in communion with the newchurchers. That is a compromise of the Faith.

There was a time when I'd argue that the SSPX needs to fight the good fight from within the Church instead of at the gate. But the fact is, it's not going to change. It's over. What used to go on in Rome, never will again. That doesn't mean the Gates have prevailed, it simply means that the true Church isn't found in Rome any longer.

It's time for trads to cut all ties with the newchurch. Unite and be done with it. Elect a Roman Catholic pope, choose a new location for the true Holy See and grow strong.




jmo, ymmv

/rant
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#17
(08-17-2013, 03:50 PM)Whitey Wrote: For example, the sedes don't recognize the pope as a true pope. The rest of the true trads don't think he's orthodox, so if one doesn't accept everything he says or does, then he's not really accepted as pope is he ?

Yes, Pope Francis is accepted as pope by trads who do not think he is entirely orthodox. That is why they are not sedevacantists or schismatics.

What you're proposing is really a kind of Old Catholicism.
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#18
(08-17-2013, 03:50 PM)Whitey Wrote: I think it's time to realize that there is in fact a new religion and a non-Roman Catholic Church posing as one in the Vatican. There are some holy clergy there, but the problem is, they are in communion with the newchurchers. That is a compromise of the Faith.

There was a time when I'd argue that the SSPX needs to fight the good fight from within the Church instead of at the gate. But the fact is, it's not going to change. It's over. What used to go on in Rome, never will again. That doesn't mean the Gates have prevailed, it simply means that the true Church isn't found in Rome any longer.

It's time for trads to cut all ties with the newchurch. Unite and be done with it. Elect a Roman Catholic pope, choose a new location for the true Holy See and grow strong.
jmo, ymmv

/rant

Sorry, but I'm a Catholic who believes the Dogmas defined by the Ecumenical Councils:

Pastor aeternus, Vatican Council I Wrote:Chapter 2: On the permanence of the primacy of blessed Peter in the Roman pontiffs

1. That which our lord Jesus Christ, the prince of shepherds and great shepherd of the sheep, established in the blessed apostle Peter, for the continual salvation and permanent benefit of the Church, must of necessity remain for ever, by Christ's authority, in the Church which, founded as it is upon a rock, will stand firm until the end of time.

2. For "no one can be in doubt, indeed it was known in every age that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, the pillar of faith and the foundation of the Catholic Church, received the keys of the kingdom from our lord Jesus Christ, the savior and redeemer of the human race, and that to this day and for ever he lives" and presides and "exercises judgment in his successors" the bishops of the Holy Roman See, which he founded and consecrated with his blood.

3. Therefore whoever succeeds to the chair of Peter obtains by the institution of Christ himself, the primacy of Peter over the whole Church. "So what the truth has ordained stands firm, and blessed Peter perseveres in the rock-like strength he was granted, and does not abandon that guidance of the Church which he once received".

4. For this reason it has always been necessary "for every Church--that is to say the faithful throughout the world--to be in agreement with [the Roman Church] because of its pre-eminent authority." In consequence of being joined, as members to head, with that see, from which "the rights of sacred communion" flow to all, they will grow together into the structure of a single body.

Chapter 3: On the power and character of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff

1. And so, supported by the clear witness of Holy Scripture, and adhering to the manifest and explicit decrees both of our predecessors the Roman Pontiffs and of general councils, we promulgate anew the definition of the ecumenical Council of Florence [49], which must be believed by all faithful Christians, namely that the "holy Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff hold a world-wide primacy, and that the Roman Pontiff is the successor of blessed Peter, the prince of the apostles, true vicar of Christ, head of the whole Church and father and teacher of all Christian people. To him, in blessed Peter, full power has been given by our lord Jesus Christ to tend, rule and govern the universal Church. All this is to be found in the acts of the ecumenical councils and the sacred canons."

2. Wherefore we teach and declare that, by divine ordinance, the Roman Church possesses a pre-eminence of ordinary power over every other Church, and that this jurisdictional power of the Roman Pontiff is both episcopal and immediate. Both clergy and faithful, of whatever rite and dignity, both singly and collectively, are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this not only in matters concerning faith and morals, but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the Church throughout the world.

3. In this way, by unity with the Roman Pontiff in communion and in profession of the same faith , the Church of Christ becomes one flock under one Supreme Shepherd.

4. This is the teaching of the Catholic truth, and no one can depart from it without endangering his faith and salvation.
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#19
I don't see a future where we unite and go on our own. Too many differents kinds of cats, like Sanborn and Cekada as leopards, to Fellay as a Lion, and Williamson as a Siberian Tiger, and many more feral and domestics without a herd instinct.

At the beginning I was all hap, hap, happy, thinking here comes the consecration of Russia. Now I have no idea about anything. FFI makes no sense from a lib or con point of view. They are a very good priest making order, why upset that ?

I'm re-reading Windswept House and what I fear is S. Malachi of Armagh is right this is the last successor of Peter, and next is the anti-church Fr. Malachi Martin wrote was coming.

One of us must win big in the Lotto and buy a parcel of land a bit off the beaten path where we can weather the coming troubles. I'd bet Fr. Rodriguez can ride a horse.

tim
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#20
(08-17-2013, 05:00 PM)Tim Wrote: One of us must win big in the Lotto and buy a parcel of land a bit off the beaten path where we can weather the coming troubles. I'd bet Fr. Rodriguez can ride a horse.

tim

Well, I know a FSSP priest, a late vocation, who was a Montana cowboy before he went to seminary! :)
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