Pope Francis is shaking things up, and the Conservatives don't like it
#51
(08-19-2013, 06:15 PM)iona_scribe Wrote:
(08-19-2013, 05:45 PM)Asperges me Wrote:
(08-18-2013, 09:02 PM)iona_scribe Wrote: They'll come around.

Remember folks, if you see a new family walk into your Mass and sit down in the pew near you, smile at them. Then introduce yourself in the vestibule afterwards. A little goes a long way toward countering the misconceptions and making it a welcoming environment for people seeking refuge.

Funny you should mention that. At the Latin Mass yesterday a couple sat in front of me. Soon enough it was apparent that they have never been to a Latin Mass. The woman kept shaking her head and the man said, "That was strange." They couldn't wait to head for the doors.

:LOL:  I've seen that happen sometimes too. Sometimes people have guests, or maybe they wander in expecting a Novus Ordo and got the time mixed up.  I always pray for them that seeds would be planted. Whenever we invite a friend or relative to come along, they always admit that it was beautiful even if their ideology dictates that they should dislike it.  :grin:  Also, I feel like it's good for people to see a lady with a head covering, modest clothes, and small children who is also happy and not supposedly oppressed. ;)
Oh, I see. I'm supposed to be oppressed by my veil, marriage and family. I'll have my husband get right on that oppression thing. Right after he finishes the porch and porch swing I asked him for. (Because he oppressed me with his kindness!!)
It'll be hard to explain to the kids how they're supposed to be oppressing me, but they're smart, they'll figure it out. ;P
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#52
(08-19-2013, 05:45 PM)Asperges me Wrote:
(08-18-2013, 09:02 PM)iona_scribe Wrote: They'll come around.

Remember folks, if you see a new family walk into your Mass and sit down in the pew near you, smile at them. Then introduce yourself in the vestibule afterwards. A little goes a long way toward countering the misconceptions and making it a welcoming environment for people seeking refuge.

Funny you should mention that. At the Latin Mass yesterday a couple sat in front of me. Soon enough it was apparent that they have never been to a Latin Mass. The woman kept shaking her head and the man said, "That was strange." They couldn't wait to head for the doors.

Strange indeed.  That's because it's 100% Catholic, not Protestant-like.
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#53
You know I have this whacked out idea that might make first time Latin Mass attendees to feel more at home. That'd be returning to the way Pope Pius XII and others wanted the participation to be like. That means the folks in the pews recite the responses and sing the ordinary even the Pater Noster just like on EWTN. I really think this would work, and ease their transition. Make them wonder what they are saying and what they are chanting, and the Mass' reverence and theology will sink in.
Remember the NO Mass has conditioned them to believe they are integral to the Mass, and the sacrificial part has been minimized, so they need a bridge to get their minds wrapped around what Mass is for real.

Ortho-praxis man, that is the answer.

tim
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#54
(08-20-2013, 10:35 AM)Tim Wrote: You know I have this whacked out idea that might make first time Latin Mass attendees to feel more at home. That'd be returning to the way Pope Pius XII and others wanted the participation to be like. That means the folks in the pews recite the responses and sing the ordinary even the Pater Noster just like on EWTN. I really think this would work, and ease their transition. Make them wonder what they are saying and what they are chanting, and the Mass' reverence and theology will sink in.
Remember the NO Mass has conditioned them to believe they are integral to the Mass, and the sacrificial part has been minimized, so they need a bridge to get their minds wrapped around what Mass is for real.

Ortho-praxis man, that is the answer.

Not too revolutionary an idea, Tim, in my part of the world.  Several of us already do this at Latin Masses, since we know the Latin responses and the chants.  I do think it helps.  From those who don't know the Latin I get looks, but not negative ones.  I don't tend to sing the Pater Noster (even though I know it by heart), out of respect for the celebrant, but I'll sing with the choir, when the choir sings responses.
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#55
(08-19-2013, 05:45 PM)Asperges me Wrote:
(08-18-2013, 09:02 PM)iona_scribe Wrote: They'll come around.

Remember folks, if you see a new family walk into your Mass and sit down in the pew near you, smile at them. Then introduce yourself in the vestibule afterwards. A little goes a long way toward countering the misconceptions and making it a welcoming environment for people seeking refuge.

Funny you should mention that. At the Latin Mass yesterday a couple sat in front of me. Soon enough it was apparent that they have never been to a Latin Mass. The woman kept shaking her head and the man said, "That was strange." They couldn't wait to head for the doors.

Last time a lost couple came in, we gave them a spare missal quietly during Mass and talked to them afterwards and invited them to donut hour.  They're coming back next time they're in town. :)
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#56
(08-20-2013, 10:35 AM)Tim Wrote: You know I have this whacked out idea that might make first time Latin Mass attendees to feel more at home. That'd be returning to the way Pope Pius XII and others wanted the participation to be like. That means the folks in the pews recite the responses and sing the ordinary even the Pater Noster just like on EWTN. I really think this would work, and ease their transition. Make them wonder what they are saying and what they are chanting, and the Mass' reverence and theology will sink in.
Remember the NO Mass has conditioned them to believe they are integral to the Mass, and the sacrificial part has been minimized, so they need a bridge to get their minds wrapped around what Mass is for real.

Ortho-praxis man, that is the answer.

tim

I agree, Tim.  I much prefer silent low Mass, but how could I object to this?
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#57
Miriam, I have seen more than one priest that doesn't want the folks to recite the Pater Noster and that was Pope Pius XII's addition. The priests must lead the way just like it says in Vatican II. They must teach us the Latin responses and the chanting. My thoughts are if they chant the Gloria, Credo, Suscipiat, Sanctus, and the Pater Noster they will get over themselves.

tim
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#58
(08-17-2013, 02:04 PM)2Vermont Wrote: Generally speaking, I don't feel a hatred towards trads, but I do think that given enough time the "conservs" will join ranks with the trads.  Not too long ago I would have called myself a conservative, not a Trad. 

Added:  I wanted to add to the above that what I meant by "I don't feel" was  that I don't get a personal feeling of hatred towards me, a Trad.  Now if I go on CAF, that's a whole different ballgame.
However, when I see a parish priest needing special permission to have weekly TLM, then I start to go  :hmmm:

I don't believe the majority of neo con Catholics will side with trads when it comes down to taking sides.  I've been friends with many neo con's in the past and all it takes is for some Catholic Answers spokesman to perform mental gymnastics to put their minds at ease and they quickly except some new modernist play thing.  They may not like it, but they will go along to get along. 

A future example may be;

Pope Francis allows for women "deacons".  The Vatican will refer to them as, "extraordinary deacon's" who's so purpose is to assist the church in a minor capacity, such as the deaconess mentioned in one of the epistles (I forget which one).  Of course the Vatican will allow this knowing full well that through abuse, these deaconess will be baptizing, preaching and performing other duties that used to be reserved for the priest alone.  They will even prepare special vestments for them.  This will be considered a great accomplishment and pastoral event for the Church to the modernist.  One extra step out of the dark ages, so to speak. 

Naturally, the neo cons will be upset.  Groups such as Catholic Answers will be out in full battle dress to quickly quiet things down and explain how the Church cannot error and this will be good for the Church, we must trust the Magisterium and by the way the Pope mentioned he liked the Blessed Virgin so he's one of us.  The neo cons, who set side by side with the modernist in the pew at any given N.O. parish, will shut up, know their place and quickly settle in for yet another change. 

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#59
(08-20-2013, 01:50 PM)SpiderDweeb Wrote:
(08-17-2013, 02:04 PM)2Vermont Wrote: Generally speaking, I don't feel a hatred towards trads, but I do think that given enough time the "conservs" will join ranks with the trads.  Not too long ago I would have called myself a conservative, not a Trad. 

Added:  I wanted to add to the above that what I meant by "I don't feel" was  that I don't get a personal feeling of hatred towards me, a Trad.  Now if I go on CAF, that's a whole different ballgame.
However, when I see a parish priest needing special permission to have weekly TLM, then I start to go  :hmmm:

I don't believe the majority of neo con Catholics will side with trads when it comes down to taking sides.  I've been friends with many neo con's in the past and all it takes is for some Catholic Answers spokesman to perform mental gymnastics to put their minds at ease and they quickly except some new modernist play thing.  They may not like it, but they will go along to get along. 

A future example may be;

Pope Francis allows for women "deacons".  The Vatican will refer to them as, "extraordinary deacon's" who's so purpose is to assist the church in a minor capacity, such as the deaconess mentioned in one of the epistles (I forget which one).  Of course the Vatican will allow this knowing full well that through abuse, these deaconess will be baptizing, preaching and performing other duties that used to be reserved for the priest alone.  They will even prepare special vestments for them.  This will be considered a great accomplishment and pastoral event for the Church to the modernist.  One extra step out of the dark ages, so to speak. 

Naturally, the neo cons will be upset.  Groups such as Catholic Answers will be out in full battle dress to quickly quiet things down and explain how the Church cannot error and this will be good for the Church, we must trust the Magisterium and by the way the Pope mentioned he liked the Blessed Virgin so he's one of us.  The neo cons, who set side by side with the modernist in the pew at any given N.O. parish, will shut up, know their place and quickly settle in for yet another change.   

This rings so true to me.  I can no longer sit in the pew, shut up and settle in for yet another change.  Sitting in the (NO) pew has been an occasion of sin for me.
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#60
(08-20-2013, 12:42 PM)Tim Wrote: Miriam, I have seen more than one priest that doesn't want the folks to recite the Pater Noster and that was Pope Pius XII's addition. The priests must lead the way just like it says in Vatican II. They must teach us the Latin responses and the chanting. My thoughts are if they chant the Gloria, Credo, Suscipiat, Sanctus, and the Pater Noster they will get over themselves.

Did you misunderstand me? Or did I mis-communicate?

(I did say that I sing along with the choir, when the choir sings the Latin responses, and at no other times, out of respect for the celebrant.)
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