Pope Francis is shaking things up, and the Conservatives don't like it
(08-17-2013, 09:17 PM)OldMan Wrote:
(08-17-2013, 07:15 PM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-17-2013, 03:50 PM)Whitey Wrote: For example, the sedes don't recognize the pope as a true pope. The rest of the true trads don't think he's orthodox, so if one doesn't accept everything he says or does, then he's not really accepted as pope is he ? If trads would admit this, then the wall between sedes and other trads crumbles.

I think the main difference is in the understanding of Vatican I.  There is the office of the papacy and there is the occupant of the papacy.  Sedes believe that the office is perpetual, not the occupancy (ie. the papacy can still be perpetual without an occupant).  Other trads believe occupancy is also perpetual.  The reading I have been doing has led me to believe that this is the main difference in their understanding of Vatican I. 
In reality the occupancy is NEVER perpetual as every pope dies creating a vacancy. Show me a document that defines just how long a vacancy is. Is it 55 years? 51 years? 49 years? 5 years? 6 months? 1 month? three weeks?
My understanding is that the papacy is a permanent and constituent element of the Church (just like all of the constituent elements of the Church are permanent).  If the Church lost such an element for even a moment (even if Christ restored it after it was lost), it would violate the dogma of indefectibility.  The papacy is perpetual in that the Church always has a Pope either in "act" or in "potency"--the Church either has a sitting Pope or the power to appoint one (furthermore, since it is willed by Christ that the Church have a visible head, the Church cannot simply decide to not appoint one).  It is one thing to say there is no Pope; it is quite another to claim the Church lacks the means to appoint one--at that point, both the occupant and the office have been lost and the Church has defected. 

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Re: Pope Francis is shaking things up, and the Conservatives don't like it - by SaintSebastian - 08-17-2013, 11:59 PM

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