Pope Francis is shaking things up, and the Conservatives don't like it
#71
(08-20-2013, 05:14 PM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 05:12 PM)lumine Wrote: Thanks for your answer.  Did your husband grow up actively Catholic, or is he a convert, too?

Yes, he was baptized a Catholic as an infant.  He has sensed something wrong in the Catholic Church for years.  He's just recently become very vocal about it.

Thanks for your answers.
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#72
(08-20-2013, 06:24 PM)lumine Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 05:14 PM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 05:12 PM)lumine Wrote: Thanks for your answer.  Did your husband grow up actively Catholic, or is he a convert, too?

Yes, he was baptized a Catholic as an infant.  He has sensed something wrong in the Catholic Church for years.  He's just recently become very vocal about it.

Thanks for your answers.

No problem.  Obviously there's always more to anyone's story, but that's some of the basics.
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#73
(08-20-2013, 05:09 PM)2Vermont Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 04:51 PM)lumine Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 02:04 PM)2Vermont Wrote: This rings so true to me.  I can no longer sit in the pew, shut up and settle in for yet another change.  Sitting in the (NO) pew has been an occasion of sin for me.

Hi 2Vermont, you have my curiosity.  How many Novus Ordo changes have you lived through?  How has sitting through the Novus Ordo, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, been an occasion of sin for you?  Did you go to Mass before 1969?  I have been to many reverent Novus Ordo Masses, so I am having a hard time identifying with you.  Perhaps you will enlighten me.  I'm not baiting you here, ok?

Thanks, Lumine

You sure do sound like you're baiting me, but I'll respond initially.  My husband will always find something wrong at a NO Mass...ALWAYS (and as much as I would argue with him at the time, I now see that more times than not he is absolutely right).  There was a time when I had NO ISSUES with the NO at all (and I am a convert so I never attended Mass prior to 1969).  I find that, since reading up on Traditional Catholicism, I am more aware and pick up on things that I wouldn't pick up on in the past. When I go to a NO Mass now, I pray to God that the priest won't say something heretical or questionable.  Right before the homily, I am anxious.  The last NO mass I went to was blatantly heretical when the deacon offered a homily about how all religions worship the same God and how we're all destined for Heaven.  Since attending the TLM when I can, the difference is just so palatable in every way. Bottom line, the connection with the NO mass and VII are just too close for comfort.  It makes sense that since I have issues with VII that it spills over into mass.

I really really hope that my fiancee someday sees that more times than not I am absolutely right too (at least on the NO) :LOL:

It's been a real struggle trying to get her to go to a TLM with me. And the NO priest marrying us is like her hero, which sucks because he told us that the Bible is a big giant fairy tale and most of the things inside of it didn't actually happen and that it was written a long time ago so the words of God no longer apply to us.... but somehow "judge not lest you be judged" is like the one verse in all of scripture that IS to be taken literally and is the most important verse for our world today. And at the end of the the day, the central message of the Bible is all about equality and "fairness," ESPECIALLY Ephesians 5, even though it says all that stuff about husbands being the head of the wife, what St. Paul is REALLY trying to say is that they're not, and that man and woman are actually the same. BOY, good thing he set me straight on that! And don't even get me started on Thomas Aquinas! He thought women were misbegotten men, which is clearly contrary to what our world today says, therefore all of Aquinas' commentary on the epistles are completely invalid.

The funny part is most of you know I'm not even joking.
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#74
(08-20-2013, 08:07 PM)US_Soldier Wrote: And the NO priest marrying us is like her hero, which sucks because he told us that the Bible is a big giant fairy tale and most of the things inside of it didn't actually happen and that it was written a long time ago so the words of God no longer apply to us.... but somehow "judge not lest you be judged" is like the one verse in all of scripture that IS to be taken literally and is the most important verse for our world today.

There is NO way I would attend his masses.  This type of attitude from a priest is more insidious than the so-called clown masses.  I think there are a lot more of the former than the latter.  And let's all pretend that the NO had NOTHING to do with this. 

Good luck with your fiancée.  My advice (if you don't mind my saying so) from personal experience from being on the other side of things once is to be patient with her as well as charitable when she resists things you try to bring to her attention. 

......And as an aside, I think it's funny that NO says "NO".  :LOL:
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#75
Just make sure that you're on the same page religion-wise; if she's anti-traditional or antagonistic toward it, you're not going to be in for a happy marriage.
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#76
(08-21-2013, 02:53 PM)Virgil the Roman Wrote: Just make sure that you're on the same page religion-wise; if she's anti-traditional or antagonistic toward it, you're not going to be in for a happy marriage.

Oh no, she's not anti-traditional. The issue is simply that she doesn't.... "get it." Like she doesn't understand it, she doesn't see why I say any of the things I say. She doesn't see why the NO is problematic or why the TLM is such an incredible thing. She just isn't there yet. To her, clapping your hands about Jesus is great because Jesus is worth celebrating. A priest saying heretical things doesn't register in her mind, so long as the guy is a genuinely nice man who says good things about Jesus, because where we're from, you were either a Christian praising Jesus or an atheist condemning him as a bigoted phony. If anyone said anything positive at all about Jesus, it was like "finally, a friend!" Christianity was such a minority that even the most heterodox was your ally in the fight against persecution... At least that's what we thought at the time, I'm not sure I'd agree with that any more, maybe, maybe not. We've grown up and changed so much in the past 10 years. We were children when we meant. I mean literally we were children. I remember being a child and finding myself for the first time praying, asking God to "meet my future wife even if she doesn't like me yet." And I met her a couple weeks later. And I knew when I met her that I never wanted to be apart from her. She had the biggest smile on her face when I met her. At one point I thought she was actually an angel. For nearly half of my life she was my only friend. I can't tell you how happy I am to finally marry her. But I'm not even close  to being the same person I was then. I'm so radically different, and she's... just not there yet. Three to four years ago I could not have told you a single difference between Catholicism and Protestantism. I thought people were just Christians or atheists. She tries to catch up but just doesn't get it. It doesn't help that her parents are thoroughly liberals and her dad abandoned the faith altogether long ago.

Eventually, she usually jumps on my bandwagon, but it takes a long time. I remember first feeling "victorious" when I convinced her not to vote for Obama back in 2008 (and ever since), ha, because that was a hard spell to break. As 2Vermont said, I really have to be patient. It's miraculous that she follows me in anything given how much her parent's despise me and the fact that she lives with them.

I'll always advocate young marriages in accordance with thousands of years of tradition because it's easier to plant 2 juvenile pear trees mere inches apart than it is to take 2 fully grown giant sequoias and plant them even a dozen feet apart. The roots of the juveniles will intertwine and grow together. But the roots of the adults are already too strong and stubborn and set in their direction to possibly accommodate the other. What a meticulous and painfully tedious task for the farmer, to arrange hundreds of pounds of roots in such a way that both trees can even survive next to each other.
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