Orthodox Posters?
#41
(08-20-2013, 10:45 AM)St. Pius of Trent Wrote: From what I can relay from my own experience about the Orthodox, they have expressed that if one of their patriarchs had attempted to do what Paul VI did to the liturgy and rotes of the Church, he would've been deposed and possibly worse.

The Orthodox priests I've talked to think what's been done to the Roman rites is a travesty.

I know Eastern Catholic priests who also think the same thing.
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#42
Quote:I know Eastern Catholic priests who also think the same thing.
From what I understand, there are a lot of liturgical refugees in the Eastern Catholic rites. Honestly, if I were coming of age in the late 60s, early 70s, I'd probably have joined the SSPX/FSSP or an Eastern Rite myself. Thank God that this isn't the Church of the 70s anymore.
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#43
(08-20-2013, 02:28 PM)guacamole Wrote: i hold to the principle enunciated by st. vincent of lerins for holding fast to tradition.  it is quoted in the first article of the declaration of utrecht (http://www.utrechter-union.org/page/152/...ion_of_utr) .  that is why i have an icon of st. vincent of lerins on my icon wall.

/snip/
i refrained from receiving communion there.  (but did receive absolution and communion, for example, at the pncc church.) 

So, guacamole, in your profile you say,
Quote:i embrace the old catholic tradition and receive the sacraments in a church in full communion with the old catholic churches of the union of utrecht.

so I assume that you accept the 'ordination' of women and the 'blessing of same sex unions' that the Union accepts. And, I wonder how long ago you received absolution and communion at the PNCC church, because, as I'm sure you know, the PNCC broke communion with the Union of Utrecht in 2004 because the Union had fallen into rank heresy and disobedience to the Divine and Natural Law on these matters.

You also say that
Quote:i hold to the principle enunciated by st. vincent of lerins for holding fast to tradition.
From the Wrote:‘Id teneamus, quod ubique, quod semper, quod ab omnibus creditum est; hoc est etenim vere proprieque catholicum’.
, which translates, 'that which has been believed everywhere, always and by all.'

I'm just curious where the attempted ordination of women and the blessing of sodomite 'unions' has been ' believed everywhere, always and by all.'

You later say,
Quote:i don't agree with all the policies of the IBC (International Bishops Conference) of the Union of Utrecht,

Seems to me that you are the cafeteria Catholic par excellence. You have 'cafeteriaed' yourself out of the One, Holy, Catholic, Roman, and Apostolic Faith established as the One True Church, by Our Lord Jesus Christ, through Orthodoxy, into a group that believes doctrines totally in opposition to either Catholicism or Orthodoxy all on the protestant principle of picking and choosing. Wouldn't it be better if you just started your own Church, maybe called the Guacamolean Catholic Church or something like that?
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#44
(08-20-2013, 10:01 PM)Philosoraptor Wrote:
Quote:I know Eastern Catholic priests who also think the same thing.
From what I understand, there are a lot of liturgical refugees in the Eastern Catholic rites.

My former Ruthenian Pastor was a Latin Rite Irishman. He petitioned for, and received, bi-ritual faculties when they 'raped the Mass' (his words). During the week he celebrated the NO, reverently, in Latin and on Sundays, the DL in our Temple.
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#45
Let me just say that while I do not agree with Guacamole's position in life, this thread was NOT set up to be a Guacamole-bashing thread, and that the person who began the thread began by asking for Orthodox posters, which means he was sort of asking for non-Catholics to post.

I think we should honour fact that Guacamole went out there and made some personal confessions, in answer to personal questions, knowing it would set Guac up for the firing squad.

If you all want to invite Guacamole to live like you, I say do so. But call off the firing squad please.
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#46
(08-20-2013, 08:38 PM)Personna Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 10:45 AM)St. Pius of Trent Wrote: From what I can relay from my own experience about the Orthodox, they have expressed that if one of their patriarchs had attempted to do what Paul VI did to the liturgy and rotes of the Church, he would've been deposed and possibly worse.

The Orthodox priests I've talked to think what's been done to the Roman rites is a travesty.

I know Eastern Catholic priests who also think the same thing.

As do I. They do not think much of the concliar Church....
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#47
guacamole Wrote:as an old catholic, i also have great sympathy for the jansenists and an interest in their history.

Do you also sympathize with Jansenist liturgy which is nothing more than a proto-Novus Ordo?
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#48
(08-20-2013, 07:42 PM)US_Soldier Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 06:22 PM)Doce Me Wrote: This sure doesn't sound like anything any Roman/Eastern Catholic should consider, regardless of the problems with the changes in the Church recently, and the problems some may perceive in the past.  It abandons the moral law, as well as the Catholic tradition and authority that upholds it. 

From the Orthodox folk that I know in real life, Orthodoxy hardly even believes in a moral "law." Obviously they believe in morality, but mostly on a circumstantial basis. Orthodoxy rejects anything similar to the Catholic teaching that lying is ALWAYS sinful, even though St. Augustine himself said, "One may not slay his own soul by lying to save his life." Lying is not intrinsicically evil to to the Orthodox, but is actually justified in many circumstances. To me it reeks of moral relativism. They tend to reject the ideas of absolute morality. And the exceptions to this are nonsensical (for example that violence is always wrong, even in self defense, such that even a soldier whose actions may be justified is still guilty of the sin of murder, a stark contrast to Catholicism). But without a centralized teaching authority it's incredibly difficult to even say what Orthodoxy actually believes since very little of it is formalized into law. In general, Orthodoxy rejects the idea of anything resembling something like a canon law, but again I can hardly even say that for the reason I just stated.

It hurts me inside to see Roman Catholics swept away because they have attached themselves more to a liturgy than to a theology. Orthodox theology is broken, and honestly stupid. They honor tradition, but only insofar as what they remember. What is actually written by the Church Fathers, or the decisions made by the Orthodox Church in times long forgotten, hardly matters to them. Apparently they don't remember the great Orthodox heroes who fought bravely against the Turks to stop the spread of Islam across Europe. Apparently those men are in hell. Even if the TLM was outlawed, I would never leave Catholicism for the sheer reason that it is the only body of thought in all of human history that actually makes any damn sense. I'd sooner suffer through communion in the hand at the command of a bishop, and stand by in my innocence and watch as he is thrown into hell, than apostatize and send myself there.
I'm Orthodox, converting to Roman Catholicism.  Orthodoxy looks great from the outside, but practically, it's an empty shell.  Although they don't admit it, each branch is under the control of its respective state.  They have no universal catechism, because if they tried to produce one, they would expose the fact that they are anything but unified, thus destroying their argument against a central authority.  I disagree with one of the other posters who said remarriage is rarely allowed.  It is constantly allowed.  3, 4, and 5 times depending on the branch.  90% of the populations in Orthodox strongholds are adherents.  But abortions are rampant, as is extra-marital sex...contraception a given.  Most Orthodox (at least in the old world), don't really understand what sin is, the church doesn't catechize the laity, that's reserved for the monastics.  Yes, i'm giving up the beautiful liturgies and iconostasis walls for clown mass.
There was a big change to the Russian liturgy in the 1600's which produced the "Old Believers" schism. 
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#49
(08-21-2013, 01:56 AM)Landless Laborer Wrote: I'm Orthodox, converting to Roman Catholicism. 

Welcome, Friend! I came over to Rome from (Serbian) Orthodoxy over 30 years ago and as frustrated as I have been with much of what has happened in the Church in those years, I have never regretted my decision!
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#50
Old believers are absolutely fascinating. The priestless division are like traddy home aloners. Mainstream Catholics think we are nuts for being slightly stand offish about the upheaval but they don't know how good they have it, imagine a schism over the sign of the cross! It's like super lex orandi lex credendi.
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