Orthodox Posters?

[2Vermont]

Welp, I gotta say.  I thoroughly respect them for that.  It still makes me wonder if they are able to do that with so many "players", why can't we?

because roman catholic authority is more centralized.  consequently, people are more passive.  that's how we got clown masses and liturgical dancing.

But I would think that it would be more likely to get that sort of stuff with a lot of players.

[guacamole]

But I would think that it would be more likely to get that sort of stuff with a lot of players.

not sure what you mean.

btw, i added a link to my last post about how an orthodox priest who concelebrated with a catholic priest was dealt with.

[2Vermont]

But I would think that it would be more likely to get that sort of stuff with a lot of players.

not sure what you mean.

btw, i added a link to my last post about how an orthodox priest who concelebrated with a catholic priest was dealt with.

I guess what I'm saying is that the Orthodox have multiple leaders (patriarchs).  We have one.  I would imagine that it would be easier for changes to happen when there are a lot of cooks in the kitchen.  Likewise, I would think that with one person keeping an eye on things, that major changes wouldn't happen.

Or maybe I don't have a clue what I'm talking about and hat is why I am not making sense....lol.

[guacamole]

actually, the paradox of roman catholicism is that having one central authority makes it easier for changes to happen.  vatican i led to to vatican ii.  the pope has universal jurisdiction.  he says change the mass, then everybody changes the mass.  that's one reason that i am old catholic and oppose vatican i.

pope pius ix, the pope of vatican i, is famous for having declared, "I AM TRADITION!"  ugh.

where all bishops have authority, there is a lot of squabbling, but they check each other.

the idea in orthodoxy and old catholicism is that tradition is more important than authority.  in roman catholicism, authority holds sway.  we see the most extreme expression of that idea in what we call neo-conservative catholics or neo-catholics.

[Ptochos]

So, Guacamole,

[Personna]

But I would think that it would be more likely to get that sort of stuff with a lot of players.

not sure what you mean.

btw, i added a link to my last post about how an orthodox priest who concelebrated with a catholic priest was dealt with.

I guess what I'm saying is that the Orthodox have multiple leaders (patriarchs).  We have one.  I would imagine that it would be easier for changes to happen when there are a lot of cooks in the kitchen.  Likewise, I would think that with one person keeping an eye on things, that major changes wouldn't happen.

Or maybe I don't have a clue what I'm talking about and hat is why I am not making sense....lol.

Yes, in the Orthodox Churches, we have a leader for each regional church but all the individual churches are in Communion with one another.  This is very important to the Orthodox mindset and belief.  If one Church were to start making some very radical changes that the other Churches find questionable or wrong, then the other Churches would break Communion with that one Church thus creating a schism.

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that a Patriarch or Metropolitan does not have omniscient power.  He cannot make major changes without the support of the Holy Synod of Bishops for his jurisdiction.  And a Synod of Bishops is not afraid to depose a ruling Patriarch or Metropolitan if they believe he has overstepped his authority or caused scandal.

[St. Pius of Trent]

From what I can relay from my own experience about the Orthodox, they have expressed that if one of their patriarchs had attempted to do what Paul VI did to the liturgy and rotes of the Church, he would've been deposed and possibly worse.

The Orthodox priests I've talked to think what's been done to the Roman rites is a travesty.

[guacamole]

So, Guacamole, I'm not aware of any Old Catholic jurisdictions that have a traditional Mass or are orthodox in their beliefs. Do you know of one? - in the USA?

the polish national catholic church is an old catholic church that was a member of the Union of Utrecht until 2003.  they have a form of the tridentine mass in english as one of their options.  i attended one last summer and was not impressed!  they used novus ordo hymns!  this is the church:  http://www.oursaviorpncc.org/

the union of utrecht will not establish any other churches here because they recognize the episcopal church as a catholic church and are in full communion with the episcopal church (as well as with the rest of the anglican communion) under the bonn agreement of 1931.

[Ptochos]

So is that to say there none? So why be an Old Catholic?

[guacamole]

So is that to say there none? So why be an Old Catholic?

because that is what i believe.  i can attend mass at an anglo-catholic church offered by a priest who has received, directly or indirectly, what fr. hunwicke calls 'the dutch touch.'  (http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.com/2008...curae.html)  problem solved!