Karl Keating Responds to Criticism from The Remnant
#21
(09-03-2013, 04:03 PM)Drover Wrote: Here is an example of sins of Omission (which is different from Heresy): Our current Pope, and previous Pope's have spoken out against giving Communion to political leaders who through their votes or public action create scandal among the Faithful. This is according to Canon Law.

However, these Popes have also tended to rarely if at all use their rightful authority to compel the Bishops to enforce this part of Canon Law. When Bishops refuse to deny Communion, the Pope's have been well within their right to remove these Bishops from their office. Not doing this results in Bishops continuing to disobey Canon Law, and gives the scandalous impression to these Politicians and the Faithful that these sins being committed aren't really sins.

And what does CA Answers and the Establishment Catholic Media do almost EVERY SINGLE TIME?

Make excuses for why the Bishops, Priests, and the clergy in Rome are not responsible in any way for this disobedience,even in the face of the Holy Father's own regurgitation of Church Tradition, and label those who expect the Pope and the Bishops to exercise their right authority in negative terms.

What's the opposite of a sin of omission?

A devil's advocate moment; what is *your* expectation?  To make a grand spectacle of things?  What if one of these people went to Confession before Mass and could deffo receive, and got turned away?

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#22
These politicos would have to formally and publicly admit their sins, say from the Senate Floor on c-span. They'd also have to explain why these are sinful and their involvement led millions of millions to burn in hell for eternity. Heavy shit that. No quickie confession for these.

tim 
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#23
(09-03-2013, 03:12 PM)Miriam_M Wrote: They do, however, appease modernists and Protestants, both.

And every other religion.

I'm sensing a pattern.
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#24
(09-03-2013, 03:29 PM)Melchior Wrote: "The common good", corporal works of mercy, death from war, are all very much pressing issues.  I say this without malice, but maybe it takes having been homeless and poor to understand how vital it is.

Or maybe it takes, from you, an imagination and a lack of judgmentalism, regardinig just who and who has not suffered extreme poverty.  How would you have any idea to presume where I have and have not been in life?  (Hint:  you're way off.)

Shame on you.
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#25
Edited because to suggest the Pope, the Church, the Bishop of Fr. Guarinzo, or any and all Catholic media outlets, or Karl Keating, or the Politicians mentioned in this thread were wrong via internet message board was speculation at best.
Any personal attacks against them were sinful. Also any arguments or personal attacks against other posters was unacceptable

I apologize for to the Pope, the Church, the Bishops, Priests, Clergy, Cardinals, the Bishop of Fr. Guarinzo, Karl Keating, any Catholic media outlets, or the Politicans mentioned in this thread, any and all organizations or individuals, and any posters such as guacamole in this thread for any sins of Gossip, Detraction, Calumny, and/or Slander caused by this post and others in the thread or Fisheaters.com as well as any other sins committed such as scandal , and any sins others fell or might fall into by reading them as a result.

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son,
and to the Holy Spirit,
as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be,
world without end. Amen.
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#26
(09-03-2013, 05:28 PM)Drover Wrote: 3. We've seen how someone getting denied plays out in the case of Fr. Guarnizo.

Another clear example of up is down and down is up post Vatican II.
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#27
(09-03-2013, 05:12 PM)Miriam_M Wrote:
(09-03-2013, 03:29 PM)Melchior Wrote: "The common good", corporal works of mercy, death from war, are all very much pressing issues.  I say this without malice, but maybe it takes having been homeless and poor to understand how vital it is.

Or maybe it takes, from you, an imagination and a lack of judgmentalism, regardinig just who and who has not suffered extreme poverty.  How would you have any idea to presume where I have and have not been in life?  (Hint:  you're way off.)

Shame on you.

Properly outraged now, are we?

Now imagine that the current Pope named himself after *your* patron Saint.  The Saint whose feast day you were born on.  The Saint whose intersession brought you back from the depths of Hell.  The Saint whose sons and daughters left a legacy which built a school, and that school held conferences and you came back to the Church because of their efforts.  Imagine that  this Saint had your back, throughout your time sleeping in bus shelters in the Canadian winter.  Think about how that the Pope chose this Saint due to his desire to help the poor and those who have nothing - despite being a Jesuit he still named himself after Francis of Assisi.  The Mirror of Perfection, the Seraphic Father.  Doctor of the Church.  *The* standard bearer for Gospel Poverty.

Imagine my surprise when, despite all of what I just wrote above, people instead decide to say that the only reason he has talked about the poor and social justice is because he wants to appeal to Protestants and modernists.  That those things shouldn't be close to the Pope's heart, but other things are more important.  Brushing off fundamental things like the Corporal Works of Mercy as appeasing to modernists and Protestants.

I said what I said with no malice, but I won't lie that some of what is being said here is incredibly bothersome.
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#28
I've said if before it was not the SSPX, the Feeeneyites or any other independent chapel that has promoted heresy the last 50 or more years or covered up sexual scandals by the hundreds. When Karl Keating takes care of all those Novus Ordo issues then he can talk about radical trads. He seems soo childish even bringing up the trads with the disaster the Novus Ordo has brought us.
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#29
(09-03-2013, 06:40 PM)Melchior Wrote:
(09-03-2013, 05:12 PM)Miriam_M Wrote:
(09-03-2013, 03:29 PM)Melchior Wrote: "The common good", corporal works of mercy, death from war, are all very much pressing issues.  I say this without malice, but maybe it takes having been homeless and poor to understand how vital it is.

Or maybe it takes, from you, an imagination and a lack of judgmentalism, regardinig just who and who has not suffered extreme poverty.  How would you have any idea to presume where I have and have not been in life?  (Hint:  you're way off.)

Shame on you.

Properly outraged now, are we?

Properly is the word, yes.  How dare you make assumptions of my level of experience, not to mention empathy?  How dare you characterize me as dismissing the Corporal Works of Mercy? You don't even vaguely know me, let alone have authority to speak about my own priorities & activities. Every Pope has rightfully "emphasized" relief of poverty, just not exclusively.  It is your opinion, possibly, that talking about poverty cures poverty.  Not mine.  But further, it is not my opinion that a deeply divided & troubled Catholic Church -- led by anyone -- will successfully persuade & mobilize the Church universal to work harmoniously in that direction.  When people are in conflict, any cause is threatened, no matter how noble.  This has been proven time & again with non-profits, often aiming for similar goals as the Church.

Quote:Now imagine that the current Pope named himself after *your* patron Saint. 

I have no idea why you find it appropriate, on an internet forum, to get so "personal" with people in the way that you do.  This is not the first time.  My patron saint or your patron saint has nothing to do with the mission of the Church, which is first of all not eradicating poverty but saving souls.  It remains the Church's primary mission, a mission increasingly threatened from within and without the Church.

Quote:Brushing off fundamental things like the Corporal Works of Mercy as appeasing to modernists and Protestants.

Actually, I never said that his motive was explicitly to appease modernists & Protestants.  However, I think he has shown a pattern of doing that on many levels and in many activities.  This particular social justice focus of his, as legitimate among many focuses as it is, happens --as a fringe benefit--to appease the people he seems most concerned about (the majority of the Church -- which are modernists -- + members of other religions).  He is not the Pontiff of the Church Eclectic.  He is Pontiff of the OHCAC.  And faithful Catholics are yearning for him to address the divisions in the Church, in a more constructive way then dismissing traditionalism as "restorationism."

Quote:I said what I said with no malice, but I won't lie that some of what is being said here is incredibly bothersome.

Don't flatter yourself as some prophet.  It's not "bothersome."  It's offensive in the way you addressed me, personally.  That's not a compliment.
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#30
Miriam,

You said this:  They merely distract from pressing issues which limit the Church's power as a body to address the very issues which he is bringing up.

They do, however, appease modernists and Protestants, both.

Reading this, it me it sounds like the reason Pope Francis advocates for these things isn't because it's close to his heart, it's because he wants to "be nice".  "to Make Nice" was the exact expression used.  You somewhat clarified your statement, although you're still using statements like "fringe benefits", as if the Pope has ulterior motives with this.  If this is what he loves and is passionate about, maybe that's why he's talking about it so.

"I have no idea why you find it appropriate, on an internet forum, to get so "personal" with people in the way that you do". 

This is what I said; "I say this without malice, but maybe it takes having been homeless and poor to understand how vital it is".  You proceeded to respond with "shame on you", which strikes me as being quite personal.  My next response was a method of explaining why exactly I find the line of thinking upsetting, to give an understanding of why I find it troubling why Catholics would even consider that our Holy Father would have ulterior motives for his zeal with social justice and poverty.  Was it "personal"?  Yes it was.  No more or no less than several of the "personal" stories that come from those who seek refuge from the "Church of Nice" and "Novus Ordo land".

If I hurt your feelings, I'm sorry for doing so.  Like I said, no malice was intending with my statement.  I seriously thought that those who would question Pope Francis' desire to assist those who are poor and for the least of our brothers, or ascribe "fringe benefits" and the like, may have had no experience with poverty and lacking shelter. 

Again, my apologies.
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