Karl Keating Responds to Criticism from The Remnant
#31
(09-03-2013, 03:04 PM)christulsa123 Wrote: Mr. Keating,

If you want to honestly understand and discuss traditionalist Catholics, please read this article by Fr. Ripperger, FSSP which demonstrates the differences in how we think, trads vs. conservatives:

http://www.latinmassmagazine.com/article...erger.html

God bless you and your work.


Thanks for the link. God bless.
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#32
(09-03-2013, 06:40 PM)Melchior Wrote: I said what I said with no malice, but I won't lie that some of what is being said here is incredibly bothersome.

So why do you continue to post here?  Besides, I thought you were banned for your last tirade against Vox and how she runs her *traditional Catholic* site/forum.
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#33
(09-04-2013, 05:38 AM)2Vermont Wrote:
(09-03-2013, 06:40 PM)Melchior Wrote: I said what I said with no malice, but I won't lie that some of what is being said here is incredibly bothersome.

So why do you continue to post here?  Besides, I thought you were banned for your last tirade against Vox and how she runs her *traditional Catholic* site/forum.

I unbanned him. A person doesn't have to be trad to post here, as long as they're respectful, and Melchior usually is.

I'm bothered by some of what gets posted here, too, BTW, and am definitely a trad per the definition here:  FETradition.

Melchior Wrote:I'm really disappointed by this response from Mr. Ferrara.  The "New Age" movement is an incredible danger to the souls of many, and there's Catholic and non-Catholics alike who see zero issue with it.  This, and spiritual warfare, are severely neglected by several groups within the Church and society as a whole.  In fact, the "100 million" Catholics Mr. Ferrara mentioned are impacted by this hocus pocus buill sh**.  I'm incredibly glad that Catholic Answers has devoted time into addressing the evils of "New Age" (which is "old age" garbage with a fresh coat of paint to make it seem "fresh").  The occult is no laughing matter, and that a Catholic outreach organization is actively speaking out against such practices is a very good thing.

The proper response shouldn't by "why are you talking about that", it might be better to say 'thank you for teaching others about this evil.  And what is also missed is Catholic Answer does teach about the evils of contraception and that same-sex "marriage" is wrong.

I am glad Catholic Answers talks about the New Age movement, too, but do think, along with Ferrara, that the present crisis needs much more to be talked about. I agree with him, too, that only "a restoration of what has been lost can repair the damage, as we see precisely with those traditionalist orders which are brimming with vocations while the seminaries of the Novus Ordo continue to close, along with Novus Ordo parishes and schools." 

What he mentioned, in that last paragraph, is, truly shocking and sad -- the bit about the "beach party Mass" in Brazil": "where consecrated Hosts were distributed in plastic Dixie cups and the "liturgical music" included pop and R & B stylings..." Plastic Dixie cups! Think about this! I mean, really and truly think about this! Our Blessed Lord, Who, in a traditional Mass would only be touched by consecrated hands, being handed out in plastic Dixie cups!  It's outrageous. It is sacrilege! It's also what is being offered to us from the very highest level of the Church's hierarchy! There is no excuse for it. None. It's no wonder at all why so many Catholics are material heretics in not believing in the True Presence. Why would they when the Body of Christ is given to them in DIXIE CUPS? We learn from a lot more than words! In the TLM, there are signs all over the place, in addition to words, that teach us, very clearly, that the Lord is Present. It's obvious that something very sacred is going on at the altar at a TLM. Even the hushed tones of the people present demonstrate that in itself, neverminding the kneeling, the bells, the incense, the priest's gestures, etc.

I've seen the Host accidentally dropped at a TLM. How the matter was dealt with was a wonder to behold. Such reverence was shown so that not even a crumb would be lost! And now we're given -- Dixie cups. It's so wrong, so wrong on its face, and demonstrates such a complete turn-around in our attitude toward the Blessed Sacrament that to not be concerned, to overlook it, to excuse it, to say it's "consistent with Tradition," makes no sense whatsoever. This madness has to stop!

It's up to us trads -- the ones who KNOW better -- to make it stop! We simply MUST get off our butts and promote the TLM, support the FSSP, et. al., get folks to make the drive if they have to in order to attend the traditional Mass. We've got to work a lot harder than we are. Aside from what God Himself may do, we are IT. We are not any more virtuous than or "superior" to our non-trad brothers and sisters, but we do know something they do not know. We have to teach them!


DIXIE CUPS... 

From this:
[Image: vessels1.jpg]

To this:
[Image: vessels2.jpg]

May Christ have mercy on us.
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#34
What Mr. Keating may not realize is that one of the reasons many people turn to the New Age movement is that the Novus Ordo culture offers neither the sense of the numinous nor the tradition of inner prayer that is preserved and conveyed by Catholic tradition.  By attacking the New Age, they are attacking a symptom of their own deficiency.
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#35
(09-04-2013, 06:28 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(09-04-2013, 05:38 AM)2Vermont Wrote:
(09-03-2013, 06:40 PM)Melchior Wrote: I said what I said with no malice, but I won't lie that some of what is being said here is incredibly bothersome.

So why do you continue to post here?  Besides, I thought you were banned for your last tirade against Vox and how she runs her *traditional Catholic* site/forum.

I unbanned him. A person doesn't have to be trad to post here, as long as they're respectful, and Melchior usually is.

I'm bothered by some of what gets posted here, too, BTW, and am definitely a trad per the definition here:  traditional Catholicism.

Melchior Wrote:I'm really disappointed by this response from Mr. Ferrara.  The "New Age" movement is an incredible danger to the souls of many, and there's Catholic and non-Catholics alike who see zero issue with it.  This, and spiritual warfare, are severely neglected by several groups within the Church and society as a whole.  In fact, the "100 million" Catholics Mr. Ferrara mentioned are impacted by this hocus pocus buill sh**.  I'm incredibly glad that Catholic Answers has devoted time into addressing the evils of "New Age" (which is "old age" garbage with a fresh coat of paint to make it seem "fresh").  The occult is no laughing matter, and that a Catholic outreach organization is actively speaking out against such practices is a very good thing.

The proper response shouldn't by "why are you talking about that", it might be better to say 'thank you for teaching others about this evil.  And what is also missed is Catholic Answer does teach about the evils of contraception and that same-sex "marriage" is wrong.

I am glad Catholic Answers talks about the New Age movement, too, but do think, along with Ferrara, that the present crisis needs much more to be talked about. I agree with him, too, that only "a restoration of what has been lost can repair the damage, as we see precisely with those traditionalist orders which are brimming with vocations while the seminaries of the Novus Ordo continue to close, along with Novus Ordo parishes and schools." 

What he mentioned, in that last paragraph, is, truly shocking and sad -- the bit about the "beach party Mass" in Brazil": "where consecrated Hosts were distributed in plastic Dixie cups and the "liturgical music" included pop and R & B stylings..." Plastic Dixie cups! Think about this! I mean, really and truly think about this! Our Blessed Lord, Who, in a traditional Mass would only be touched by consecrated hands, being handed out in plastic Dixie cups!  It's outrageous. It is sacrilege! It's also what is being offered to us from the very highest level of the Church's hierarchy! There is no excuse for it. None. It's no wonder at all why so many Catholics are material heretics in not believing in the True Presence. Why would they when the Body of Christ is given to them in DIXIE CUPS? We learn from a lot more than words! In the TLM, there are signs all over the place, in addition to words, that teach us, very clearly, that the Lord is Present. It's obvious that something very sacred is going on at the altar at a TLM. Even the hushed tones of the people present demonstrate that in itself, neverminding the kneeling, the bells, the incense, the priest's gestures, etc.

I've seen the Host accidentally dropped at a TLM. How the matter was dealt with was a wonder to behold. Such reverence was shown so that not even a crumb would be lost! And now we're given -- Dixie cups. It's so wrong, so wrong on its face, and demonstrates such a complete turn-around in our attitude toward the Blessed Sacrament that to not be concerned, to overlook it, to excuse it, to say it's "consistent with Tradition," makes no sense whatsoever. This madness has to stop!

It's up to us trads -- the ones who KNOW better -- to make it stop! We simply MUST get off our butts and promote the TLM, support the FSSP, et. al., get folks to make the drive if they have to in order to attend the traditional Mass. We've got to work a lot harder than we are. Aside from what God Himself may do, we are IT. We are not any more virtuous than or "superior" to our non-trad brothers and sisters, but we do know something they do not know. We have to teach them!


DIXIE CUPS... 

From this:
[Image: vessels1.jpg]

To this:
[Image: vessels2.jpg]

May Christ have mercy on us.

Vox Clamantis,
I truly hope that the NO priest who consecrated the hosts to be distributed in plastic dixie cups didn't himself believe in the True Christ's Presence and never had the right intention to make these hosts to become the True Body of Christ.
If so, the hosts in the dixie cup were nothing but pieces of bread and thus no desecration happened but only a huge sin from this priest.
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#36
(09-04-2013, 07:08 AM)guacamole Wrote: What Mr. Keating may not realize is that one of the reasons many people turn to the New Age movement is that the Novus Ordo culture offers neither the sense of the numinous nor the tradition of inner prayer that is preserved and conveyed by Catholic tradition.  By attacking the New Age, they are attacking a symptom of their own deficiency.

AMEN to that. I see certain Protestants all obsessed with Jewish ritual (while mocking the same thing in Catholicism, of course), and young people attracted to paganism and Wicca because of the rituals and the pretty "stuff" that goes with -- when we Catholics (and the Orthodox, too) have the most GORGEOUS rituals of all, a Faith filled with beauty -- so resplendent that it is to cry because of the beauty of it sometimes. AND, of course, what we believe is TRUE. It just makes me ill to think of the souls sucked away from the Faith because of how stripped-down, how sterile and outright ugly the manner is in which it is presented nowadays.

People crave beauty. They crave ritual. And we've got it all in spades -- but no one would know it to look at the typical Mass at the typical parish. From ugly buildings to almost laughable Masses with the clowns and felt banners, from the boring music to the watery doctrine, it's no wonder why teenagers are more attracted to Wicca than the Truth. The sense of Mystery has been practically eradicated from the human element of the Church.

We've got so much work to do...
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#37
(09-03-2013, 02:32 PM)Basilios Wrote:
(09-03-2013, 02:18 PM)Melchior Wrote:
(09-03-2013, 02:06 PM)GeorgeT Wrote: Sorry Karlie. When the bishops and the Pope himself will not teach what The Church teaches, it means The Church IS in a state of absolute chaos.

A seriosu charge that needs serious proof.  I have yet to see or hear anything from Pope Francis that is against the teachings of the Catholic Church.

I can't speak for George but I think he meant in terms of the things they don't say rather than do say.

That's what I was saying.

(09-04-2013, 07:08 AM)guacamole Wrote: What Mr. Keating may not realize is that one of the reasons many people turn to the New Age movement is that the Novus Ordo culture offers neither the sense of the numinous nor the tradition of inner prayer that is preserved and conveyed by Catholic tradition.  By attacking the New Age, they are attacking a symptom of their own deficiency.

Wow, guacamole actually said something with which I agree. Great statement, guac!
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#38
(09-04-2013, 06:28 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: I unbanned him. A person doesn't have to be trad to post here, as long as they're respectful, and Melchior usually is.

I'm bothered by some of what gets posted here, too, BTW, and am definitely a trad per the definition here:  traditional Catholicism.

I hear you loud and clear Vox Clamantis.
Reply
#39
(09-04-2013, 07:08 AM)guacamole Wrote: What Mr. Keating may not realize is that one of the reasons many people turn to the New Age movement is that the Novus Ordo culture offers neither the sense of the numinous nor the tradition of inner prayer that is preserved and conveyed by Catholic tradition.  By attacking the New Age, they are attacking a symptom of their own deficiency.

I also think this is an exceptional insight.  An appeal to the nonverbal and sense of the mysterious, the idea of surrender, the consciousness that someone/something much greater than any of us individuals is at work in the universe:  even though these aspects get funneled into inappropriate philosophies (such as spiritual, not material, "energy fields,"  such as "forces" and "entities"), nevertheless they are filling a need which some modern Catholic worship is not.

There is also the sense, even if described in odd or offbeat ways, of personal accountability for actions, of consequences.  (Wow, sin IOW.  Rarely mentioned in the typical modern parish these days.)  Further, there is the sense of intimate connection to others.  (Wow, Mystical Body, IOW.  Almost never mentioned nowadays as an essential element of Catholic theology & consciousness.)

God planted within each of us the yearning and capacity for transcendence.  That's hardly satisfied by attending Masses which  imitate Protestant 'fellowship" in the dry atmosphere of a city council meeting, complete with pre- and post-meeting socializing.  Not much transcendence there for the normal person.
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#40
(09-04-2013, 07:08 AM)guacamole Wrote: What Mr. Keating may not realize is that one of the reasons many people turn to the New Age movement is that the Novus Ordo culture offers neither the sense of the numinous nor the tradition of inner prayer that is preserved and conveyed by Catholic tradition.  By attacking the New Age, they are attacking a symptom of their own deficiency.

"New Age" isn't exactly new though, it's all stuff you can find in the Old Testament with a fresh coat of paint.  There is increased exposure/attention given to it, but that could be chalked up to the increased communication we have today which is available to us.  But there's always been people drawn to it/

Is it possible that society has had their fill with secularism?  I doubt it.  But some might, and they could be looking for something less religion-y and more "spiritual".  In that sense, I'm not sold that having things be "the way they were" would necessarily solve things.  There's tremendous backlash against the church due to what She believes - people are diametrically opposed to the doctrine.  The "rules and trappings", so to speak.  That's why we have people saying stuff like "why I love Jesus but hate religion" and other bunk - it's because they don't want the "trappings of rules" (and probably don't want obedience either) because then they'd have to change their lifestyle.
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