Critique of Pope Francis' interview with American Magazine by Louie Verrecchio
#1
http://traditioninaction.org/Questions/B647_X-Ray.html
Reply
#2
10. "The Pope is a Modernist"

:O

Wow...

So... what now?

If there is a fraud on the Petrine throne, do we have a right to depose of him? Military coup? Assassination? Imprisonment? WHAT?!

I feel even more disturbed now.  :((
Reply
#3
I won't read that garbage on that sedevacantist site...but I went to the blog of Mr. Verrecchio and it is disturbing what he says. I don't as a neophyte who missed being confirmed in a matter of months of the Benedictine papacy...wish to accept this, but Mr. Verrecchio and San Papa Pio X clearly state that we don't have "a good pope"

I as a lowly layman can only just pray and learn the Faith. The Church has certainly had Popes far more vile and injurious to the Faith than the current Holy Father....but still it's up to us to re-build the faithful. I think Michael Voris hits the nail on the head with a laser-beamed, computer-guided super-scope when he said we mustn't concern ourselves entirely with Our Lady of Fatima and things that are up to the Church heirarchy...but we must learn and study our Faith and spread it. We must become saints and create saintly families and go out and convert people like the Apostles did.

He is right, if Holy Father is a modernist, so what?

Pope Benedict threw a life-raft out to the Traditionalists with Summorum Pontificum. We should stop whining and start acting. Create Traditionalists social-justice charities and societies, bring back the Latin Mass, hold prayer vigils, bible studies, encyclical studies. Get out there and get active!

Even if Holy Father is a modernist, remember that the younger generation (people my age) hunger for the mystery of the Latin Mass. We hunger for Truth and not the modernist drivel kumbaya-hold hands-clappy clappy folk Mass where it's all about peace and love Baby-boomer 1960s hippie style. Heck most people my age could care less about Vatican II and what a wonderous thing, because Vatican II was never a dogmatic council....it should be put low on the list of studies compared to Vatican I, Trent, Nicene ect.

Eventually the old generation will die out and gone will be the obsession with "dialog", false-ecumenism, hippie-follk Masses, a disturbing obsession and fetish with Vatican II, Pope John Paul II cult of personality, preference of corporal acts of mercy over spiritual, off-the-cuff 'protestant' prayers, orans use by the laity during Mass, altar girls, calling the Host bread and the Chalice a cup......you get my drift.

Those people will die off, but the question is will the newer generations have the knowledge and instruction of what it truly means to be a Catholic? or will they be left to wander aimlessly trying to find the Truth?

If we properly train and catechize the youth today, we will have fervent and pious saints tomorrow.
Reply
#4
(09-25-2013, 10:37 AM)RedCaves Wrote: 10. "The Pope is a Modernist"

:O

Wow...

So... what now?

If there is a fraud on the Petrine throne, do we have a right to depose of him? Military coup? Assassination? Imprisonment? WHAT?!

I feel even more disturbed now.  :((

I sincerely hope you are using sarcasm.
Reply
#5
(09-25-2013, 11:53 AM)austenbosten Wrote: Eventually the old generation will die out and gone will be the obsession with "dialog", false-ecumenism, hippie-follk Masses, a disturbing obsession and fetish with Vatican II, Pope John Paul II cult of personality, preference of corporal acts of mercy over spiritual, off-the-cuff 'protestant' prayers, orans use by the laity during Mass, altar girls, calling the Host bread and the Chalice a cup......you get my drift.

Those people will die off, but the question is will the newer generations have the knowledge and instruction of what it truly means to be a Catholic?

No.  That's the point, austen.  They're not being trained now, and every effort has been made and is being made to ensure that they only continue to feed from the '60's pablum you correctly denounce.  You know, I'm generally not a conspiracy theorist, but I've seen far too many signs that the "Old Guard" (pro-V2'ers within the Church & within its hierarchy) is so invested in this Revised Modernistic Religion of theirs that playing obstructionists on reforming catechesis is the their Last Hurrah.  None of it makes sense otherwise.  For absolutely years the Holy See, and the local bishops across the industrialized world have known and discussed the sorry state of catechesis.  Yet Zero has been done.  I mean, not even the initial steps.  When a decision was made a few years ago to make bare changes in the Prayers in the Novus Ordo, it took like 12-18 months to get it all done or something. 

Some one or ones are so entrenched in Rome, so powerful, that catechesis will NOT be overhauled and corrected anywhere in the Catholic world until they're dead or otherwise lose power.  Benedict HAD to know and HAD to care about this, being an academic & teacher himself.  Yet he apparently was impotent to make any changes.  There have to be some ultra-modernists within the Vatican -- perhaps the Curia -- in key positions, and there have to be some immovable politics going on, or we wouldn't be watching the continuity of ignorance.  I do know of some local priests (especially the young ones) who are absolutely gung-ho about radical reform of catechesis, back to authenticity and clarity.  Their hands are tied.

Quote:or will they be left to wander aimlessly trying to find the Truth?

So far, yes.  Worse, the Catholic Church has become increasingly Protestantized over the last 20 years.  I don't use that as a loose term.  I use that as the reality of the number of Protestant converts, combined with the utter lack of leadership in the Roman Church, and "the spirit of V2 ecumenism-let's-all-join-hands-in-fellowship" flavor, which isn't receiving any opposite push whatsoever.  On many levels, we are becoming a Protestant Church, passively.

Without an actual leader who wants to lead, and is willing to tackle and subdue the Fifth Column within the Church, this situation is going to continue.  That's just my opinion, but I think my conclusion that inaction on catechesis is no accident, is solidly based.
Reply
#6
(09-25-2013, 12:38 PM)Miriam_M Wrote: No.  That's the point, austen.  They're not being trained now, and every effort has been made and is being made to ensure that they only continue to feed from the '60's pablum you correctly denounce.  You know, I'm generally not a conspiracy theorist, but I've seen far too many signs that the "Old Guard" (pro-V2'ers within the Church & within its hierarchy) is so invested in this Revised Modernistic Religion of theirs that playing obstructionists on reforming catechesis is the their Last Hurrah.  None of it makes sense otherwise.  For absolutely years the Holy See, and the local bishops across the industrialized world have known and discussed the sorry state of catechesis.  Yet Zero has been done.  I mean, not even the initial steps.  When a decision was made a few years ago to make bare changes in the Prayers in the Novus Ordo, it took like 12-18 months to get it all done or something. 

Some one or ones are so entrenched in Rome, so powerful, that catechesis will NOT be overhauled and corrected anywhere in the Catholic world until they're dead or otherwise lose power.  Benedict HAD to know and HAD to care about this, being an academic & teacher himself.  Yet he apparently was impotent to make any changes.  There have to be some ultra-modernists within the Vatican -- perhaps the Curia -- in key positions, and there have to be some immovable politics going on, or we wouldn't be watching the continuity of ignorance.  I do know of some local priests (especially the young ones) who are absolutely gung-ho about radical reform of catechesis, back to authenticity and clarity.  Their hands are tied.

Once again you missed my point. You are blaming the entire problem on the bishops and clergy and you are putting the entire responsibility on them to do something about it. I'm saying you...the laity, need to go out and do it yourselves. Summorum Pontificum is there....USE IT!!!!

A bishop or priest cannot --no matter how liberal and modernistic-- cannot prevent you from holding private prayer groups, host marches, hold private bible studies, encyclical studies, or charitable organizations. No matter what you can create your own private group....sure you may have to go underground, you may not be allowed to publicly put things about your group in the bulletin, but you still spread the word and you find friends in both the laity and the Church hierarchy and you fight the battle.




Quote:or will they be left to wander aimlessly trying to find the Truth?

So far, yes.   Worse, the Catholic Church has become increasingly Protestantized over the last 20 years.  I don't use that as a loose term.  I use that as the reality of the number of Protestant converts, combined with the utter lack of leadership in the Roman Church, and "the spirit of V2 ecumenism-let's-all-join-hands-in-fellowship" flavor, which isn't receiving any opposite push whatsoever.  On many levels, we are becoming a Protestant Church, passively.

Without an actual leader who wants to lead, and is willing to tackle and subdue the Fifth Column within the Church, this situation is going to continue.  That's just my opinion, but I think my conclusion that inaction on catechesis is no accident, is solidly based.


Well I'm one of those "Protestant converts" and I can tell you with my own eyes that the vast majority I see doing the "Eucharistic Minister" stuff are old ladies and men.....aka retired baby-boomers. The only ones I hear still yammering on about V2 are the old fuddy-duddies. The ones I see doing the orans and the "Hallelujah!  Aye-Men!!!!" crap are OLD TIMERS. Yes there are things in the Novus Ordo Mass that are done less reverently than some Protestant church services (at least in the Lutheran "church" you still kneel for "communion")

But that doesn't change that if you want things to change you need to get out there and get active and stop whining that we don't have a magic pope who will consecrate Russia to Our Lady's Immaculate Heart and magic, fairy sprinkle-dust is spread everywhere and everyone is happy living in a Catholic-monoarchial-distributionist society as one collective commune under God.


These are ugly times and it's a warzone out there. Your supreme leader is Christ! Your King is Christ....so what if you don't have good leaders and generals...no excuses. Gather your shield, grab your sword, gird your loins and prepare for a long uphill battle.
Reply
#7
(09-25-2013, 01:05 PM)austenbosten Wrote: [You are blaming the entire problem on the bishops and clergy and you are putting the entire responsibility on them to do something about it. I'm saying you...the laity, need to go out and do it yourselves. Summorum Pontificum is there....USE IT!!!!

But that doesn't change that if you want things to change you need to get out there and get active and stop whining that we don't have a magic pope who will consecrate Russia to Our Lady's Immaculate Heart and magic, fairy sprinkle-dust is spread everywhere and everyone is happy living in a Catholic-monoarchial-distributionist society as one collective commune under God.

These are ugly times and it's a warzone out there. Your supreme leader is Christ! Your King is Christ....so what if you don't have good leaders and generals...no excuses. Gather your shield, grab your sword, gird your loins and prepare for a long uphill battle.

You obviously have a fair amount still to learn about the Catholic Church, austen.  You seem to not understand the way the Roman Church works.  It is not a grass-roots operation, not in its official work, that is, and its official work includes approved catechetical programs.  You're the one who brought up catechesis, and you seem to believe that random laypeople can just construct a catechetical program, behind the Church's back, and no one in the hierarchy will blink.  Wrong.

Yes, on the grass-roots level, passion for the TLM, for example, can be catalyzed, and has been to a limited extent. You need a local bishop willing to allow/promote it, and a priest who can and will preside over it.  But here and there, despite vigorous attempts and various unnamed discussion forums who discourage promotion of it, it does happen.  However, the growing popularity of it, grass-roots, is not matched by the number of priests who can and will say such a Mass. These are objective facts, and the fruit of both politics of the last 30+ years in the seminaries and the seminary training itself.

The only way at the moment to correct catechesis is the current dual pathway of the internet + homeschooling.  If parents want to teach their children the true Faith, they're going to have to take matters in their own hands, austen.  Genuine, authentic catechesis in line with Sacred Tradition is not available in juvenile catechetical programs throughout the Catholic world. Not in parish CCD programs and not even in parochial school religious programs.  It's the same watered-down post-V2 garbage.  The problem, however, is that most parents today with young children have themselves been poorly catechized and are not, therefore, in a position to teach the true Faith.  Adult catechesis is perhaps even more desperately needed than juvenile catechesis. Some of that is slowly happening via internet (traditional Catholic sites), via resources on those sites.  But that's a micro-drop in the bucket.  It's not even big enough to call a catechetical movement.  If it were, I would be rejoicing.
Reply
#8
(09-25-2013, 11:53 AM)austenbosten Wrote: I won't read that garbage on that sedevacantist site...but I went to the blog of Mr. Verrecchio and it is disturbing what he says. I don't as a neophyte who missed being confirmed in a matter of months of the Benedictine papacy...wish to accept this, but Mr. Verrecchio and San Papa Pio X clearly state that we don't have "a good pope"

I as a lowly layman can only just pray and learn the Faith. The Church has certainly had Popes far more vile and injurious to the Faith than the current Holy Father....but still it's up to us to re-build the faithful. I think Michael Voris hits the nail on the head with a laser-beamed, computer-guided super-scope when he said we mustn't concern ourselves entirely with Our Lady of Fatima and things that are up to the Church heirarchy...but we must learn and study our Faith and spread it. We must become saints and create saintly families and go out and convert people like the Apostles did.

He is right, if Holy Father is a modernist, so what?

Pope Benedict threw a life-raft out to the Traditionalists with Summorum Pontificum. We should stop whining and start acting. Create Traditionalists social-justice charities and societies, bring back the Latin Mass, hold prayer vigils, bible studies, encyclical studies. Get out there and get active!

Even if Holy Father is a modernist, remember that the younger generation (people my age) hunger for the mystery of the Latin Mass. We hunger for Truth and not the modernist drivel kumbaya-hold hands-clappy clappy folk Mass where it's all about peace and love Baby-boomer 1960s hippie style. Heck most people my age could care less about Vatican II and what a wonderous thing, because Vatican II was never a dogmatic council....it should be put low on the list of studies compared to Vatican I, Trent, Nicene ect.

Eventually the old generation will die out and gone will be the obsession with "dialog", false-ecumenism, hippie-follk Masses, a disturbing obsession and fetish with Vatican II, Pope John Paul II cult of personality, preference of corporal acts of mercy over spiritual, off-the-cuff 'protestant' prayers, orans use by the laity during Mass, altar girls, calling the Host bread and the Chalice a cup......you get my drift.

Those people will die off, but the question is will the newer generations have the knowledge and instruction of what it truly means to be a Catholic? or will they be left to wander aimlessly trying to find the Truth?

If we properly train and catechize the youth today, we will have fervent and pious saints tomorrow.


Is that site sedevacantist?  I don't think so, but please correct me if I am in error.

If Pope Francis is a modernist, he wouldn't be the first pope who has fallen into heresy.  Nevertheless, it is a big deal if the shepherd falls into error.
Reply
#9
I should have added to my post that homeschooling, not only for catechetical reasons, but because of what else is taught in public and even Catholic schools, culturally, is part of the Resistance, which I guess can be loosely called the unauthorized Underground.  But first of all, a minority of parents are in a position to do this.  Second, group psychology is very strong.  Too many Catholics are "afraid" to step out of the "indicated" catechesis in their local parish, afraid they'll be labeled "not in communion with Rome" or some such fear-mongering.  People tend to go with the flow, and I'm not about to condemn parents for "not being brave enough" to initiate something on their own -- for example, in small groups.  They don't have the resources, especially in terms of their own religious training, which is thin.

Yes, eventually, possibly in 2 or 3 generations from now, a Resistance movement in terms of catechesis may have some impact on the official Church, but no matter how many laypeople resist, Rome will feel no obligation to surrender authority for catechesis to parents and theologically untrained catechists.  There has to be the same general theological orientation in the Holy See for such programs to be incorporated into formal catechesis within parishes.  Further, the practical and the political reality is that parents who want their children to receive sacraments are often required to submit to the parish' or school's own post-V2 instruction, rather than their family's own instruction.  There have been isolated cases of parents who braved The System and successfully brought themselves and their children to be examined & approved by the local pastor, but sometimes those attempts have failed (the pastor would not agree to private examination), and the children have still been required to attend the existing institutional program as a supplement, presenting another problem of competing catechesis for the children themselves.
Reply
#10
Miriam what I'm saying is not go to the CCD director and demand a change...I'm not saying write up your own Syllabus of Errors for the Vatican II documents and teach it as Church doctrine or write up your own catechism.

I'm saying use what you already have and work with it. You don't need a bishops permission to hold your own private Bible study using say the DRB. You don't need a priest's permission to start a private group teaching Latin...You don't need a priest's permission to start groups to encourage young boys to join the seminary and pursue to learn the Extraordinary Form.

As for the TLM

YOU DO NOT NEED A BISHOP'S APPROVAL!!!!!!

Summorum Pontificum is clear and it is the law of the land. The EF is no longer restricted (Ignore the doomsayers about FI controversy) and needing approval from a bishop. Any priest can perform the TLM

No priest to do the TLM??....then be prepared to ask or even beg and then pony up some cash. Be prepared to send a NO priest to training, be prepared to buy him new vestments...be prepared to work your -ss off and fix 60 years of cataclysmic damage. It's not easy and nothing is and nothing ever will be. Christ had to endure his Passion and die on the Cross...and all we need to do is pony some cash and be prepared to get a lot of rejection from priests and bishops....scathing remarks and the occassional "Vatican 2 changed all of that...you aren't doing what Pope Francis wants!" or "You're not charitable Whaaaa!" 

....yeah what a sacrifice we will have to make to bring back what is hidden.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)