A fascinating piece of [recent] history...
#1
Let me preface this by saying I was born in 1977. I did not attend Mass regularly until 2003. The NO is primarily what I know, I have only been to the TLM a handful of times when I've had it available. I am interested in "where we came from" so to speak, which is the origin of my interest in TLM and find clues about how to arrived to where we are today to be so interesting.

I'm telling you all about this because frankly, other than my husband, I don't think I have anyone IRL to share this with, but it's just soooo cool!
...

During my regular rounds at our local Mennonite thrift shop (where I frequently find Catholic treasures such as art and books), I stumbled upon a most fascinating piece of our history.

For an entire 6 cents (it was moonlight madness this evening, marked down from 25 cents) I found a "New... Saint Joseph Sunday Missal and Hymnal, According to the New Revised Liturgy".

The exact year of publication is not indicated, but seeing how it has a table of Sundays and Movable Feasts for 1966 to 1971, I'm going to assume it's from 1966ish.

Fascinating, fascinating, fascinating!

Three things really struck me:

1. These were the days before "Ordinary Time", so the Sundays were named things like "Septuagesima Sunday", which is very cool. I don't know what that means, but it sounds so cool! I knew the Ordinary time thing was recent, but I didn't know what it was before.

2. The English translations, at least the people's parts, are nearly identical to the "New Mass Translations" that came out in 2011. I also suspected as such from a book of traditional Catholic prayers that I bought in 2009ish, so before the new translation, but  many of the prayers mysterious match up with the "new" ones since 2011.

But the priest's parts are very different. When did that change? I had assumed it was with the development of the NO, but maybe it was after?

3. The Latin. I immediately noticed that in certain sections of the Ordinary the responses are in Latin at the bottom of the page, while now-familiar English translations are at the top. Clearly, it was intended to be a primarily English missal, but why the Latin?

From the Introduction:

Quote:The "Ordinary of the Mass" contains not only the complete English text but also the Latin responses of dialogue Mass, to facilitate the fulfillment of the Church's desire that "steps should be taken so that the faithful may also be able to say... together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertains to them".

Wow.

So what happened? Why don't we say those parts in Latin?



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#2

I can't answer your question, but if you want to learn more about the liturgical year, the meaning of some of the names, customs of the various seasons like Advent, Lent, Christmastide, etc., see these two pages, in this order:

http://www.fisheaters.com/time.html
http://www.fisheaters.com/customs.html

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#3
What you seem to be looking at is a hand missal for the 1965 transitional Missale Romanum, which was substantially the Traditional Latin Mass, but translated into English.  I have some images of that edition of the Missal here, though on other pages what you would see are two columns of text, one in English and one in Latin: http://ministeritinerans.blogspot.com/20...-unus.html  You are right -- the "New Translation" and the 1965 translation are very similar for those parts which have the same Latin, since both were carried out with the same mindset of accuracy (whereas the 1970 was not).  Yet as you see, some parts are very different, and that is because in 1969 many of the Latin prayers themselves were rewritten for the Novus Ordo.

Septuagesima Sunday is the third Sunday before Ash Wednesday, which starts Quadragesima (Lent).  Quadragesima meaning 40th, or, 40th day before Easter, and Septuagesima meaning 70th.  Before the Novus Ordo was promulgated, we started adding penitential variations to the Mass from Septuagesima, by suppressing the Gloria and wearing violet vestments.

As to why we don't actually say those parts in Latin . . .  :safe:
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#4
(10-25-2013, 12:46 AM)Steven Wrote: What you seem to be looking at is a hand missal for the 1965 transitional Missale Romanum, which was substantially the Traditional Latin Mass, but translated into English.  I have some images of that edition of the Missal here, though on other pages what you would see are two columns of text, one in English and one in Latin: http://ministeritinerans.blogspot.com/20...-unus.html  You are right -- the "New Translation" and the 1965 translation are very similar for those parts which have the same Latin, since both were carried out with the same mindset of accuracy (whereas the 1970 was not).  Yet as you see, some parts are very different, and that is because in 1969 many of the Latin prayers themselves were rewritten for the Novus Ordo.

Septuagesima Sunday is the third Sunday before Ash Wednesday, which starts Quadragesima (Lent).  Quadragesima meaning 40th, or, 40th day before Easter, and Septuagesima meaning 70th.  Before the Novus Ordo was promulgated, we started adding penitential variations to the Mass from Septuagesima, by suppressing the Gloria and wearing violet vestments.

As to why we don't actually say those parts in Latin . . .  :safe:

Hmm... that's interesting. Was there a translation done in 1965 to English? I don't think I realized that.

I guess I'm a little fuzzy on how the transition between the TLM and the NO went. I thought it was a singular, abrupt change, but did it happen in stages? i.e. transform the TLM into English (or whatever vernacular), then start rewriting prayers, etc. The book I have clearly intends to have a significant portion of the Mass said in English, I think.

So now I'm curious, I haven't been to enough TLM to notice but do the ones said these days (diocisean ones) follow the year A-B-C format that the NO follows, or do they follow the traditional readings? Also, did they retain the traditional names or do they now go with the ordinal naming we have now.

I love the Latin it has in it. The way it's written makes it easier to figure out how to pronounce it, my husband was laughing at me last night as I was "trying it out". He remarked that I really did find a treasure this time.
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