A Single Post That Explains Why Toxic Trads Are Not Welcome Here
(10-27-2013, 09:26 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: The Spanish Carlists refer to any brand of gays, lesbians, transgendereds, bisexuals or whatever as a single word.  That word pretty much sums them all up: "aberro-sexual"; as in, someone with an aberrant sexuality, their sexuality is an aberration.

Aberro-sexual.  It covers not only sodomites but also people with weird fetishes, like furries.

They're all aberro-sexuals.  What do you all think of the term?  :hmmm:

Transsexualism has nothing, in se, to do with sexual orientation...
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(10-27-2013, 09:58 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 09:29 AM)Clare Brigid Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 09:26 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: The Spanish Carlists refer to any brand of gays, lesbians, transgendereds, bisexuals or whatever as a single word.  That word pretty much sums them all up: "aberro-sexual"; as in, someone with an aberrant sexuality, their sexuality is an aberration.

Aberro-sexual.  It covers not only sodomites but also people with weird fetishes, like furries.

They're all aberro-sexuals.  What do you all think of the term?  :hmmm:

Does it include masturbators and pornography addicts?

Depends.  Do these masturbators and porn addicts view their lifestyle as normal and defend it?  If so... aberrosexuals.

If they have a legitimate problem that they recognize as a problem, not a lifestyle, I think that's different.

That goes to the exact problem I laid out earlier. Not all homosexuals are active homosexuals.
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(10-27-2013, 10:58 AM)Chestertonian Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 09:25 AM)HailGilbert Wrote: As you know, I have those mental illnesses that I can't stop complaining about, now added with type 2 diabetes, neuropathy and recently arthritis. I get easily discouraged and depressed and hate suffering, especially now. I don't trust any priest to be a spiritual director for me, for I don't know if they are orthodox or modernist. And I don't go to Mass or Confession for I'm angry toward Jesus for permitting me to be this way from all Eternity - and not even telling me why on my level of understanding.

I complain and beg and plead Him once a day, every day, to cure me first and nothing happens. How can I trust Him if He won't do this? And those toxic folks only made it worse for me.

I really have been there.  I went about 4 years without going up for Holy Communion and the effects of that were very bad for me.  Talking to a priest is hard especially if you're not sure who to trust.  I was struggling with some very maddening, personal mental health issues and it was very difficult to find a priest I could talk to with a straight face.  Please don't let your anger drive you away from the Sacraments, though.  It is a very human thing, to wrestle with God and be angry.  Our Lord felt every single human emotion when he walked this earth including anger, and that feeling of "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"  Please go to Confession and Mass and trust that Jesus has been where you are, and the Sacraments will afford you the intimate relationship you need with him to get past those feelings.  There is no joy and no peace outside of God and His Church.  I know it is difficult when you struggle to even sit through the Mass, but the graces are there, and He sees all of your efforts.

I also have wrestled with God over my frequent prayers for healing that seem to go unanswered.  One thing we must all understand is that the "health and wealth Gospel" is a sham.  Truly, God will wipe away every tear and heal every single human malady.  The Cross has conquered sin, death, physical illness and mental illness, and all those other sources of human suffering.  However, the healing that God promises does not specifically take place in this life.  Christ certainly healed many people miraculously, to show us that He was indeed fully Divine as well as fully human, and to show us that he was the Divine Physician who will take away the sin, death and disease.  However the vast majority of souls who achieve heaven experience healing in the next life.  In Purgatory, the soul is cleansed and healed of its attachment to sin and vice so that it is pure and holy enough for the everlasting joy of Heaven.  In the Resurrection of the dead, God will give us glorified bodies--you, only perfect.  The way you were meant to be before the Fall.

My wife and I have prayed many times for me to be healed of various health issues.  We have had Masses offered for my healing, said many Rosaries, etc.  It's hard when it seems like God is saying "No."  But in reality He is not saying "No," He is saying, "Not now--later."  I get the sense in my prayer life that He is allowing me to live with what I live with because it is the cross that I am going to carry to heaven, and it is also something He allows my family to experience because maybe He wants to draw them closer to Himself through my suffering.  I have a lot of days where I still wonder why I bother, I get very tempted to say "f*** THIS I'm GOING ON HOSPICE" but God's plan in my life is still unfolding and unraveling, and I get the sense that He isn't done with me, and I am trying to let Him accomplish what He is trying to accomplish with my suffering.  I wish He would restore my physical and mental function on Earth and while I've felt a lot of anger that He is not doing this, it has helped to look at the big picture and understand that if I carry this cross my whole life, I will eventually experience Divine Healing in heaven. 

Some well-meaning but toxic people have tried to make me feel bad for not having been miraculously healed.  A Protestant nurse at dialysis with a "Word-Faith" mentality used to give me a lot of crap about it until I asked for a new nurse and told her to shove off.  Especially in the area of mental illness, I think there is a tendency among trads to make it seem like depression, anxiety and other disorders can be healed simply through prayer, and if you're still suffering then you're Obviously Doing It All Wrong.  Some people have no idea what they're talking about.  They have no idea what it means to find Jesus in the depths of your suffering.

So rest assured that He does intend to heal you physically, spiritually and emotionally.  He will not permit you to suffer this way for all eternity.  That is, if you follow Him on earth and carry your cross to Heaven.  He has not abandoned you, rather He is there with you, and holding the cross alongside you, pointing you to the healing that is to come.
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(10-27-2013, 11:02 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 09:58 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 09:29 AM)Clare Brigid Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 09:26 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: The Spanish Carlists refer to any brand of gays, lesbians, transgendereds, bisexuals or whatever as a single word.  That word pretty much sums them all up: "aberro-sexual"; as in, someone with an aberrant sexuality, their sexuality is an aberration.

Aberro-sexual.  It covers not only sodomites but also people with weird fetishes, like furries.

They're all aberro-sexuals.  What do you all think of the term?  :hmmm:

Does it include masturbators and pornography addicts?

Depends.  Do these masturbators and porn addicts view their lifestyle as normal and defend it?  If so... aberrosexuals.

If they have a legitimate problem that they recognize as a problem, not a lifestyle, I think that's different.

That goes to the exact problem I laid out earlier. Not all homosexuals are active homosexuals.

If they aren't active, then I wouldn't call them homosexuals.  They'd just have same sex attraction.
Reply
(10-27-2013, 11:07 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 11:02 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 09:58 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 09:29 AM)Clare Brigid Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 09:26 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: The Spanish Carlists refer to any brand of gays, lesbians, transgendereds, bisexuals or whatever as a single word.  That word pretty much sums them all up: "aberro-sexual"; as in, someone with an aberrant sexuality, their sexuality is an aberration.

Aberro-sexual.  It covers not only sodomites but also people with weird fetishes, like furries.

They're all aberro-sexuals.  What do you all think of the term?  :hmmm:

Does it include masturbators and pornography addicts?

Depends.  Do these masturbators and porn addicts view their lifestyle as normal and defend it?  If so... aberrosexuals.

If they have a legitimate problem that they recognize as a problem, not a lifestyle, I think that's different.

That goes to the exact problem I laid out earlier. Not all homosexuals are active homosexuals.

If they aren't active, then I wouldn't call them homosexuals.  They'd just have same sex attraction.

Shrinks would call them homosexuals, they would likely call themselves that, etc. Even the perfectly chaste have a sexuality -- even the sexually continent and celibate. Even priests and nuns, etc. But I really don't  want to argue; this all goes back to my post above about it.

So, let's not talk about it and keep the topic on Toxic Trads, etc.

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A timely Gospel for today:

Gospel According to Saint Luke
Chapter 18
[9]And to some who trusted in themselves as just, and despised others, he spoke also this parable: [10] Two men went up into the temple to pray: the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
[11] The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican. [12] I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess. [13] And the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift up his eyes towards heaven; but struck his breast, saying: O God, be merciful to me a sinner. [14] I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather than the other: because every one that exalteth himself, shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself, shall be exalted.
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(10-27-2013, 12:24 PM)RobA Wrote: A timely Gospel for today:

Gospel According to Saint Luke
Chapter 18
[9]And to some who trusted in themselves as just, and despised others, he spoke also this parable: [10] Two men went up into the temple to pray: the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
[11] The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican. [12] I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess. [13] And the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift up his eyes towards heaven; but struck his breast, saying: O God, be merciful to me a sinner. [14] I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather than the other: because every one that exalteth himself, shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself, shall be exalted.

Amen! I'd actually gone to confession this week and was told by the Monsignor to read this gospel as my penance
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[quote='HailGilbert' pid='1213230' dateline='1382880307']
Vox, these "toxic trads" are part of the reason why I don't post here that much anymore. I looked for compassion and encouragement and got beat up instead. NOT by everyone, true, but certain ones who you've rightly banned for being toxic.

As you know, I have those mental illnesses that I can't stop complaining about, now added with type 2 diabetes, neuropathy and recently arthritis. I get easily discouraged and depressed and hate suffering, especially now. I don't trust any priest to be a spiritual director for me, for I don't know if they are orthodox or modernist. And I don't go to Mass or Confession for I'm angry toward Jesus for permitting me to be this way from all Eternity - and not even telling me why on my level of understanding.

I complain and beg and plead Him once a day, every day, to cure me first and nothing happens. How can I trust Him if He won't do this? And those toxic folks only made it worse for me.

Vox, thank you for purging them from FE. I hope it will make it easier for me and other folks like me to come back and interact more. Please keep me in your prayers, for I need them bad if I am EVER to escape Hell when I die and be healed of my sicknesses in this life.

Thank you so very, very much.
[/quote








Perhaps you are destined to be a victim soul? Great graces and reward in Heaven can be yours if you accept God's will. Please go back to the sacraments. Prayers.
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YOU MIGHT BE A TOXIC TRAD IF:

You insist on Chestertonian styles of dress and behavior for men.

You think men wearing jeans, except for working in the field, is a sign they are a leukwarm traditional Catholics.

You insist your high school grad daughter should not pursue higher education or training or employment, but just help out at home until they marry, even if that takes several years.

Your idea of discipline for children is for them to spend an hour in a homemade coffin as penance.

You view your traditional parish as a monastic enclosure for elite Catholics only.

You treat your parish priest not as a pastor and spiritual advisor but as a sacrament machine.

You live in the country and tend to think the city dwellers from your trad parish tend to be the watered down Catholics.

You tend to dogmatize distributism, the Catholic land movement, homesteading, the writings of John Senior or Hillaire Beloc.

You insist on not voting or being political, until one day your country is officially Catholic and ruled by a Catholic monarch.

You think the REAL founder of the traditional movement was Schukardt, Fr Feeney, or Fr  de Pauw.

You insist on not naming your pets for religious reasons, instead just calling them "dog" or "cat."

You use trad forums as a place to vent your anger and aggression onto others from the privacy of your username and laptop.

You defend hating not just the sin but also the sinner.

You treat newcomers to the TLM, or strangers, with suspicion as if they are not a complete human being to get to know until you fill in all the pieces of who they are.

You act as if things like civility, charity, chivalry, social modesty, etc are optional if not a sign of weakness.








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(10-27-2013, 11:03 AM)Chestertonian Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 10:58 AM)Chestertonian Wrote:
(10-27-2013, 09:25 AM)HailGilbert Wrote: As you know, I have those mental illnesses that I can't stop complaining about, now added with type 2 diabetes, neuropathy and recently arthritis. I get easily discouraged and depressed and hate suffering, especially now. I don't trust any priest to be a spiritual director for me, for I don't know if they are orthodox or modernist. And I don't go to Mass or Confession for I'm angry toward Jesus for permitting me to be this way from all Eternity - and not even telling me why on my level of understanding.

I complain and beg and plead Him once a day, every day, to cure me first and nothing happens. How can I trust Him if He won't do this? And those toxic folks only made it worse for me.

I really have been there.  I went about 4 years without going up for Holy Communion and the effects of that were very bad for me.  Talking to a priest is hard especially if you're not sure who to trust.  I was struggling with some very maddening, personal mental health issues and it was very difficult to find a priest I could talk to with a straight face.  Please don't let your anger drive you away from the Sacraments, though.  It is a very human thing, to wrestle with God and be angry.  Our Lord felt every single human emotion when he walked this earth including anger, and that feeling of "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"  Please go to Confession and Mass and trust that Jesus has been where you are, and the Sacraments will afford you the intimate relationship you need with him to get past those feelings.  There is no joy and no peace outside of God and His Church.  I know it is difficult when you struggle to even sit through the Mass, but the graces are there, and He sees all of your efforts.

I also have wrestled with God over my frequent prayers for healing that seem to go unanswered.  One thing we must all understand is that the "health and wealth Gospel" is a sham.  Truly, God will wipe away every tear and heal every single human malady.  The Cross has conquered sin, death, physical illness and mental illness, and all those other sources of human suffering.  However, the healing that God promises does not specifically take place in this life.  Christ certainly healed many people miraculously, to show us that He was indeed fully Divine as well as fully human, and to show us that he was the Divine Physician who will take away the sin, death and disease.  However the vast majority of souls who achieve heaven experience healing in the next life.  In Purgatory, the soul is cleansed and healed of its attachment to sin and vice so that it is pure and holy enough for the everlasting joy of Heaven.  In the Resurrection of the dead, God will give us glorified bodies--you, only perfect.  The way you were meant to be before the Fall.

My wife and I have prayed many times for me to be healed of various health issues.  We have had Masses offered for my healing, said many Rosaries, etc.  It's hard when it seems like God is saying "No."  But in reality He is not saying "No," He is saying, "Not now--later."  I get the sense in my prayer life that He is allowing me to live with what I live with because it is the cross that I am going to carry to heaven, and it is also something He allows my family to experience because maybe He wants to draw them closer to Himself through my suffering.  I have a lot of days where I still wonder why I bother, I get very tempted to say "f*** THIS I'm GOING ON HOSPICE" but God's plan in my life is still unfolding and unraveling, and I get the sense that He isn't done with me, and I am trying to let Him accomplish what He is trying to accomplish with my suffering.  I wish He would restore my physical and mental function on Earth and while I've felt a lot of anger that He is not doing this, it has helped to look at the big picture and understand that if I carry this cross my whole life, I will eventually experience Divine Healing in heaven. 

Some well-meaning but toxic people have tried to make me feel bad for not having been miraculously healed.  A Protestant nurse at dialysis with a "Word-Faith" mentality used to give me a lot of crap about it until I asked for a new nurse and told her to shove off.  Especially in the area of mental illness, I think there is a tendency among trads to make it seem like depression, anxiety and other disorders can be healed simply through prayer, and if you're still suffering then you're Obviously Doing It All Wrong.  Some people have no idea what they're talking about.  They have no idea what it means to find Jesus in the depths of your suffering.

So rest assured that He does intend to heal you physically, spiritually and emotionally.  He will not permit you to suffer this way for all eternity.  That is, if you follow Him on earth and carry your cross to Heaven.  He has not abandoned you, rather He is there with you, and holding the cross alongside you, pointing you to the healing that is to come.

Thank you in advance for your prayers and good wishes. To me, though, His sending me crosses are not acts of love but abandonment. If I'm not going to be healed in this life, then I'd rather be dead and soon. Why? It tells me Jesus doesn't love me enough to apply the merits of His sufferings and death on the Cross to heal me in this life. And in turn, it tells me He doesn't love me enough - period.

I attempted suicide five times back in 1980 and those feelings are still with me today, though they ebb and flow like high and low tides on the seashore. If the Lord doesn't cure me on this side of the grave, I know I'll kill myself in the end. When, where and how, I don't know. I just know I'm capable of it if pushed to the wall.

Right now, I don't want either sainthood or damnation. I want normalcy or death. If Jesus won't cure me on this side of the grave and sooner rather than later, then I can't truly say I love and trust Him 100%. It means I'm being picked on and bullied again, just like I was when growing up, both at home and school. Nothing matters to me more in this life right now than to get healed of every mental and physical ill in me or die. If He won't cure me, then He doesn't love me.

Please keep up your prayers for me and thank you again for your kind words and support.
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