FSSP or ICKSP
#1
I am discerning a call to the priesthood, and I am looking at both the FSSP and the ICKSP. I have exposure to the Fraternity, but none with the Institute. Can anyone tell me in what ways they are different? By this, I mean besides their use of the Tridentine mass, what characterizes them? Do the priests for each group have a certain personality type? Preaching style? Spirituality? I've read the websites of both, but I was hoping to get some opinions from those who have had exposure to either of them.
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#2
(12-07-2013, 12:31 AM)Hypokeimenon Wrote: I am discerning a call to the priesthood, and I am looking at both the FSSP and the ICKSP. I have exposure to the Fraternity, but none with the Institute. Can anyone tell me in what ways they are different? By this, I mean besides their use of the Tridentine mass, what characterizes them? Do the priests for each group have a certain personality type? Preaching style? Spirituality? I've read the websites of both, but I was hoping to get some opinions from those who have had exposure to either of them.

I don't know if this helps but I have met Canon Jean Marie-Moreau of the ICKSP, he is a wonderful priest, very down to earth and humble. If the rest of the ICKSP is like him they must be in great shape.

C.
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#3
(12-07-2013, 12:31 AM)Hypokeimenon Wrote: I am discerning a call to the priesthood, and I am looking at both the FSSP and the ICKSP. I have exposure to the Fraternity, but none with the Institute. Can anyone tell me in what ways they are different? By this, I mean besides their use of the Tridentine mass, what characterizes them? Do the priests for each group have a certain personality type? Preaching style? Spirituality? I've read the websites of both, but I was hoping to get some opinions from those who have had exposure to either of them.

The ICRSS (Which is their proper latin acronym) has more of a focus on the liturgy and a refined, classical formation.  They tend to live on their own in Parishes or in small groups.  Their formation will exude a royal, well educated quality to it.  They carry/present themselves with much authority.  It can be a little intimidating at first, but that will turn to a love for the confidence and staunchness with with they preach. 

The FSSP, from what I have experienced put less emphasis on the Mass, gandour, etc.  Not that this is bad, but it is not their focus. 

It really boils down to what you think your particular charism might be?  This will be easily discerned by either group in your 1st year, if you are accepted.  Ohh, the ICRSS will require you to learn French.  If that matters at all.
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#4
Choose ICKSP!!!!

:grin:
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#5
I have spent a lot of time asking this question - and pondering it.

There is a standard answer one will receive that the ICKSP are so formed by their devotion to St Francis de Sales and Salesian spirituality - with a marked emphasis on charity and a non-confrontational approach to the issues that enflame the Traditional movement. That old line about catching more flies with honey fits them well.

Digging deeper, there are more subtle, less easily nameable differences. I concur with this from Moon1234


(12-07-2013, 07:45 AM)moon1234 Wrote: The ICRSS (Which is their proper latin acronym) has more of a focus on the liturgy and a refined, classical formation.  They tend to live on their own in Parishes or in small groups.  Their formation will exude a royal, well educated quality to it.  They carry/present themselves with much authority.  It can be a little intimidating at first, but that will turn to a love for the confidence and staunchness with with they preach. 

The FSSP, from what I have experienced put less emphasis on the Mass, gandour, etc.  Not that this is bad, but it is not their focus. 

I recommend ponder and thinking about Moon 1234 words. The liturgy IS different - a great emphasis on beauty and precision ... I find it very, very special indeed. My wife (who unfortunately cannot easily contribute to this forum due to an eye problem) has a kind of liturgical sensitivity I do not possess. She notices and is impacted by each gesture of the liturgy. My wife is blown away by ICKSP like no other.

So its not just "pomp and grandeur" - it's that they take the liturgy very, very seriously. One priest told me that every year, I believe, they are monitored in their celebration of the liturgy. The result is a difference that is very very hard to name in words. Something profound I think.

I also believe ICKSP has more of a "corporate identity" - shaped by a specific spiritual vision of their founder Monsignor Wach. Whereas FSSP is more diverse and individualistic.

I would say that "corporate identity" - words hard here - is not only marked by the Salesian emphasis on charity I  mentioned and an affinity with St. Francis de Sales, but also other Saints and devotions of the Tridentine era such as St. Sophie Barat and the Sacred Heart and Infant King devotions. There is an appreciation of the baroque then.

I am very, very, very moved by ICKSP and have written a post about them at my site:

http://corjesusacratissimum.org/2013/09/...praises-2/

You might find the comments at the end of my page more helpful than what I wrote ...

I have a bit more to say will try to find time later or tomorrow.



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#6
My first Latin Mass was in ICKSP oratory.
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#7
ICKSP, I find  that they have the better formation and spirituality, though I find that is partly because they have a much better pool of candidates to chose from, per se (as they are smaller than FSSP and they have a very important cheerleader in Cardinal Burke).  I was in Lourdes this spring and Monsignor Wach gave a little state of the Institute speech, and he spoke about how he receives from throughout the world asking him to make them priests.  Also, Wach is extremely insistent about keeping just one house of study and formation for his seminarians, which infuriates some US supporters (the language of instruction is French by the way and they require you to be fluent before you enter) because they would feel it stifle their growth, but Monsignor Wach seems to favor quality over quantity.  Though some in Rome do not like things like that because there is a chance of creating an insular, cultic atmosphere which has been a rather common feature in recent religious foundations, and can create later issues (as Legionnaires can tell you).  Also, within the ICKSP, I sense that there is a strong sense of extreme patience when it comes to matters within the Church, I find that many young priests, diocesan or religious, have a zealous drive undo the damage (real or perceived) as soon as possible with neither being charitable or pastoral to their congregation.  When I was on pilgrimage with the Institute, I was talking about their African missions (which by the way one of which is set to become a true territorial parish, the only territorial parish in the world dedicated to the traditional liturgy) and the priest was talking about they have lots of baptisms but very few marriages and remarked that Christianization is not something overnight, but is gradual and take time, Europe will take time to truly re-evangelize it.  So they have a strong sense of Providence, which is important.  Also, it is a positive that they are more insistent on having a community life, indeed the destruction of the community life is probably 90% the cause of the collapse of so many religious houses.  An interesting note is that they have five American seminarians, of which only one of them is from a diocese with an Oratory.

That being said, I do find an aura around ICKSP priests that I do not normally see around FSSP priests. Like I was at a pilgrimage, and I saw one of their priest back from Africa wearing a white cassock and you could tell something was special about him, indeed most of the priests I find to be cultured, well-educated, well-mannered and kind (though sometimes a little rough in the confessional).  That being said, there seems more issues between ICKSP and local ordinaries than the FSSP as they has been expelled from several dioceses over the years mostly in Europe.  And I do find some of the pomp and grandeur a little too much at times, though I understand it, but some people may be turned off to it because they don't understand it.

That being said, as some of the previous posters have mentioned, the FSSP has a different focus and identity, and really that should be foci and identities.  There is a more diversity of background I find among the FSSP priests, there are some who were their from the beginning, a number that defected from the diocesan priesthood (more so than ICKSP), and the young priests.  One of the priest that came from a diocesan background seem to carry some baggage and resentment, which is not healthy at all to have especially considering the precarious position most TLM are in some places.  The last thing, I think the traditional movement needs is antagonism between Traditional and NO parishes especially from  the people who are supposed to be the best qualified (at least in theory) to defend the traditional positions as well as maintain unity in the Church.  I find that some of their priests homiletics are all over the place, and while solid and orthodox seem to lack a certain pastoral touch and unity.  Homiletics is right now the hot word in many areas of the Church, particularly in the US as there are very few institutions that teach it effectively.  That being said, the FSSP has done more to help me to discover my vocation in life, for which I am eternally grateful to them. 
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#8
Its really kind of a toss up. My preference is FSSP. But then that's where I go to Mass. There is no Institute anywhere close to me. I drive over 75 miles each way to FSSP. Used to drive 120 each way but things have improved.

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#9
(12-07-2013, 07:29 AM)Cetil Wrote:
(12-07-2013, 12:31 AM)Hypokeimenon Wrote: I am discerning a call to the priesthood, and I am looking at both the FSSP and the ICKSP. I have exposure to the Fraternity, but none with the Institute. Can anyone tell me in what ways they are different? By this, I mean besides their use of the Tridentine mass, what characterizes them? Do the priests for each group have a certain personality type? Preaching style? Spirituality? I've read the websites of both, but I was hoping to get some opinions from those who have had exposure to either of them.

I don't know if this helps but I have met Canon Jean Marie-Moreau of the ICKSP, he is a wonderful priest, very down to earth and humble. If the rest of the ICKSP is like him they must be in great shape.

C.

I second that, Canon Moreau is truly wonderful.  I find him "father"-like in that he really cares about your spiritual and prayer life.  He reminds you to pray your rosary daily in a kind stern manner the way my parents did with my homework as a child.

My home parish is with the Institute but I have frequented a few FSSP parishes.  I find ICKSP priests more "mature" if I may call it in their formation and attitude.  Even their Latin sounded more fluid and fluent.  By no means take that as a negative judgement, just a observation made from a limted sample pool of priests.  My vote is for the Institute.
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#10
Is it true that ICKSP priests are allowed to use pre-1962 missals?
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