FSSP or ICKSP
#41
(12-23-2013, 05:14 PM)Chestertonian Wrote: You don't know what the future holds.  We could all get obliterated by an asteroid tomorrow

I think astronomers would tell us that in days, if not weeks. It's easy for them to see what id heading towards us light-years away.
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#42
(12-23-2013, 04:48 PM)dymphnaw Wrote: You'd be hitching your wagon to a falling star in either case. In the next few years both orders are going to be in trouble.

Why do you say this? Please elaborate on this. The FSSP has been around since 1988.
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#43
(12-22-2013, 07:05 PM)RedCaves Wrote:
(12-22-2013, 06:20 PM)Geremia Wrote:
(12-07-2013, 06:48 PM)RedCaves Wrote:
(12-07-2013, 06:35 PM)PolishTrad Wrote: Is it true that ICKSP priests are allowed to use pre-1962 missals?

Yes, it's true.
I know they say some prayers for the pope from the '58 Missal, but they can say the entire mass from a pre-'62 Missal?

From what I've been told, yes, they can. It's one of their special perks they are allowed to have.
Here's what my ICRSS oblate candidate friend wrote me about this:
Quote:Canon [the ICRSS priest] only uses the pre-62 missal for feasts that are missing in the 62 missal. Under the rubrics of the 1962 Missal, customs are allowed. The customs that the Institute have and get permission for by the Commission Ecclesia Dei are basically rubrics that were abolished in the 1962 reform. The Institute used to celebrate Holy Week with the 1945 Missal (which is the same as the 1570 Missal) until Summorum Pontificum. When Summorum Pontificum came out, the Institute decided to do the 1955 Holy Week Rites with some adaptations from pre-55.

So, technically the Institute has customs that are pre-62 rubrics and they use the Missal of 62 and sometimes an older version for particular feasts. They do not however have official permission to use the 1570 Missal. I heard that the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei is going over a proposition from Una Voce to let the FSSP and ICKSP use the pre-55 Holy Week Rites. They'll have the option to use either the 62 or the 55. But in technicality, for just the Missal, Summorum Pontificum is crystal clear about using only the 1962 Missal. To use an earlier version, you would need permission from the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei. Given that the Institute knows so many Cardinals in the curia, including the ones that celebrate Latin Mass regularly, Burke, Rode, Bagnasco, Piacenza, Rajinth, Canizares, Hoyos, Brandmueller, Pell, etc., and have permission to retain customs that are pre-62 rubrics, I wouldn't be surprised if they have permission to use pre-62 missals and they're just not advertising it to anybody. That's possible.
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#44
(12-07-2013, 12:31 AM)Hypokeimenon Wrote: I am discerning a call to the priesthood, and I am looking at both the FSSP and the ICKSP. I have exposure to the Fraternity, but none with the Institute. Can anyone tell me in what ways they are different? By this, I mean besides their use of the Tridentine mass, what characterizes them? Do the priests for each group have a certain personality type? Preaching style? Spirituality? I've read the websites of both, but I was hoping to get some opinions from those who have had exposure to either of them.

I think some of these impressions are very hard to put into words -- at least they are for me.  I am not acquainted directly with FSSP, but am acquainted directly with ICKSP -- their Masses, feasts, devotions, Confession, and their parish style within a diocese. 

I agree with the comment of someone else, that they are non-combative, non-confrontational (i.e., lacking "baggage") in terms of their outward presence and focus.  It's about charity and truth without compromise to either, but I will add that it's so refreshing to witness a lack of apology for Truth, which is rare in any strictly NO diocesan parish, and I do mean rare.  As has always been true within Sacred Tradition, Truth is simply What Is.  Truth is not subject to man's approval of it or emotional response to it.  There is the assumption of absolutes as the standard and as a blessing from God.  (As you undoubtedly know, the ancient Israelites also regarded God's absolutes as a blessing, for those absolutes were the evidence of God's paternal guidance/care/love.) 

There is no question, when you walk into one of their parishes, about where the focus is, and that would not be human beings.  It's as if V2 never happened.  The language used is not ambiguous post-V2 language.

I have not experienced them as "rough" within the confessional, but rather as thorough, and as using --only as appropriate and when needed -- the confessional for spiritual direction.  That is, not a long "direction session," but providing moral/spiritual guidance in the matter of sin specifically.  All of the Commandments and all of the binding commandments of the Church are, again, the standard, and I have been questioned about areas I did not bring up, because those additional areas logically proceeded from other sins and temptations I mentioned.  I've also been asked about the context for everything I mention, and about my own situation/life-status.  (That's what I mean by thorough.)

There is such joy in this parish, and particularly emanating from the ICKSP priests themselves.  These men are men of God, and it's visible and palpable in their persons.  In a typical modern parish, I experience dissension, because there are supposedly so many valid opinions about morality, theology, liturgy, music, and pastoral direction, with lay people assuming that the pastor is no more discerning than anyone else.  I have experienced no dissension in an ICKSP parish, because the lines of authority are extremely clear. The faithful look to the priests as the source of authority and information. (It's very possible that the same clarity is evident in FSSP parishes, but I wouldn't know.  :))

I will pray for your discernment.
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#45
(12-24-2013, 04:45 PM)Geremia Wrote:
(12-22-2013, 07:05 PM)RedCaves Wrote:
(12-22-2013, 06:20 PM)Geremia Wrote:
(12-07-2013, 06:48 PM)RedCaves Wrote:
(12-07-2013, 06:35 PM)PolishTrad Wrote: Is it true that ICKSP priests are allowed to use pre-1962 missals?

Yes, it's true.
I know they say some prayers for the pope from the '58 Missal, but they can say the entire mass from a pre-'62 Missal?

From what I've been told, yes, they can. It's one of their special perks they are allowed to have.
Here's what my ICRSS oblate candidate friend wrote me about this:
Quote:Canon [the ICRSS priest] only uses the pre-62 missal for feasts that are missing in the 62 missal. Under the rubrics of the 1962 Missal, customs are allowed. The customs that the Institute have and get permission for by the Commission Ecclesia Dei are basically rubrics that were abolished in the 1962 reform. The Institute used to celebrate Holy Week with the 1945 Missal (which is the same as the 1570 Missal) until Summorum Pontificum. When Summorum Pontificum came out, the Institute decided to do the 1955 Holy Week Rites with some adaptations from pre-55.

So, technically the Institute has customs that are pre-62 rubrics and they use the Missal of 62 and sometimes an older version for particular feasts. They do not however have official permission to use the 1570 Missal. I heard that the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei is going over a proposition from Una Voce to let the FSSP and ICKSP use the pre-55 Holy Week Rites. They'll have the option to use either the 62 or the 55. But in technicality, for just the Missal, Summorum Pontificum is crystal clear about using only the 1962 Missal. To use an earlier version, you would need permission from the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei. Given that the Institute knows so many Cardinals in the curia, including the ones that celebrate Latin Mass regularly, Burke, Rode, Bagnasco, Piacenza, Rajinth, Canizares, Hoyos, Brandmueller, Pell, etc., and have permission to retain customs that are pre-62 rubrics, I wouldn't be surprised if they have permission to use pre-62 missals and they're just not advertising it to anybody. That's possible.

I talked to my source and while he did concur that the ICKSP may use the pre-1962 missal, he told me that written proof of the "special permission" may be found on the ICKSP's constitution.
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