Vatican: FI seminary closed, no ordinations for one year, oath accepting NO
#11
Quote:The Novus Ordo as an authentic expression of the liturgical tradition of the Church and therefore of Franciscan tradition (without prejudice to what is permitted by the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, once the current disciplinary decree of veto, ad hoc and ad tempus, is revoked for the Institute), and the documents of the Second Vatican Council, in accordance with the authority accorded them by the Magisterium.

I believe that a traditionalist can swear this oath in good conscience as long as it's clear that the acceptance of the Novus Ordo as valid and licit form of the Church's liturgy does not equate with stating that it is above criticism or is a sub-standard liturgy.  Not that it's a sub-standard Sacrifice, but that the ritual is not as good as it can be.  The same goes for the documents of the Second Vatican Council.  I pray that the FFI force this issue so that Rome is clear with what it considers to be the acceptable bounds within which traditionalists can operate.  We need a clear precedent now.

The FFI is currently undergoing its Passion.  It is suffering injustice and sickening hostility from Rome for having done nothing wrong.  But this is not unique.  The Jesuits were once entirely suppressed.  Plenty of Orders have suffered from the Church hierarchy.  When one is confronted by their own inequity then they lash back.  But the FFI are on the side of Our Crucified Lord.  Their eventual victory, as is ours, is assured.

All this affair has proved to me is that the Church is still composed of sinful men that are not concerned with the True Faith.  The FFI will stay strong and they will triumph by the Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of our Maiden Mother.

Bring it on.
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#12
"Small minded rules" from the inmates of the Vatican. Hypocrites!
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#13
(12-11-2013, 08:31 PM)Clare Brigid Wrote: Skarga, you seem to be arguing that the teachings of Vatican II are infallible because they have become part of the ordinary and universal magisterium.

That might be a good argument, but how do you address the fact that some of these teachings appear to conflict with the ordinary and universal magisterium as it was before Vatican II?  This is the essential problem. If you push your point too far, it leads people to a loss of faith in the irreformability of infallible teaching, and from there, to a loss of faith in Catholicism. Do you acknowledge this?  Do you see that many traditionalists love the Church and want to preserve their faith in Her?

This.
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#14
Wow!!!  :O  :'((

Reading through all of this is breath taking.  Sending an 80 year old leader of an order, who is on doctors rest, to a foreign country where he does not know the language, is barred from contacting anyone is tantamount to trying to kill the man. 

I am just so taken aback that I don't know whether to scream or cry.  If the Vatican ever wanted reconcile with the SSPX I can 100% assure you that this type of action will be remembered for a LONG time.  EVERY religious institute should be appalled by this action.  The fact that the Vatican came in, replaced ALL of the leaders of the FFI, put in teachers that do not even have degrees in the subject they are supposed to teach, etc.  I just can not fathom what was being thought here?

I can't see how this will lead to any kind of healing of the order.  It really is destruction.  It sure sends the message that those having ANY attachment to tradition should NEVER enter a mixed right order, especially one that wishes only to implement Summorum Pontificum.

The "oath" that they are being asked to swear is an "Oath to Modernism".  I can't think of it as anything other than the antithesis of Pope St. Pius X's Oath AGAINST modernism.
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#15
(12-12-2013, 07:28 AM)moon1234 Wrote: Wow!!!   :O   :'((

Reading through all of this is breath taking.  Sending an 80 year old leader of an order, who is on doctors rest, to a foreign country where he does not know the language, is barred from contacting anyone is tantamount to trying to kill the man. 

I am just so taken aback that I don't know whether to scream or cry.  If the Vatican ever wanted reconcile with the SSPX I can 100% assure you that this type of action will be remembered for a LONG time.  EVERY religious institute should be appalled by this action.  The fact that the Vatican came in, replaced ALL of the leaders of the FFI, put in teachers that do not even have degrees in the subject they are supposed to teach, etc.  I just can not fathom what was being thought here?

I can't see how this will lead to any kind of healing of the order.  It really is destruction.  It sure sends the message that those having ANY attachment to tradition should NEVER enter a mixed right order, especially one that wishes only to implement Summorum Pontificum.

The "oath" that they are being asked to swear is an "Oath to Modernism".  I can't think of it as anything other than the antithesis of Pope St. Pius X's Oath AGAINST modernism.

Compliments of Time's "Person of the Year!"
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#16
I don't have a problem with the oath it self, my problem are the actions taken and the fact that they are demanding an oath. From all the problems in the Church on THIS they move lightning fast?
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#17
Maybe they know who their real enemies are.

*sigh*
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#18
(12-11-2013, 08:09 PM)Skarga Wrote: Groups like the FFI have many crypto-SSPXers who deny infallible teachings of the Church promulgated since Vatican II. If they're going to submit to the pope they must submit to him in doctrine and teaching, not just submission by word.

What infallible teachings? Can you specify a few that the crypto-SSPXers deny?
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#19
(12-12-2013, 09:46 AM)Unum Sint Wrote: I don't have a problem with the oath it self, my problem are the actions taken and the fact that they are demanding an oath. From all the problems in the Church on THIS they move lightning fast?

The problem will be when the oath is used to suppress any further forms of traditionalist sentiment within the FFI. 

It will happen. 
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#20
(12-12-2013, 12:34 PM)digitalpapist Wrote:
(12-12-2013, 09:46 AM)Unum Sint Wrote: I don't have a problem with the oath it self, my problem are the actions taken and the fact that they are demanding an oath. From all the problems in the Church on THIS they move lightning fast?

The problem will be when the oath is used to suppress any further forms of traditionalist sentiment within the FFI. 

It will happen. 

The modernists are in seventh heaven now!
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